2 3 4 5
mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
9/13/21 8:14 a.m.
Norma66-Brent said:

Was this real time? Because if it is I feel like a major slacker

Real time started towards the beginning of page 2 when I first got the engine running in the car.  

I wish I could just take my time and casually enjoy a build

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
9/13/21 8:22 a.m.
Shavarsh said:

Do you have any tips on the home depot carpet job? I probably need to do that soon

There's plenty of good write ups out there from people who did a better job but I'll give you my rundown.

I used indoor/outdoor carpet they sell in pre-cut 6'x8' rolls for $26.  For insulation I found some foil backed stuff that you wrap water heaters with- do not recommend, it sounds like you're stepping on a bag of potato chips.  Hopefully that will go away.  Grab 2 cans of spray adhesive too, you're gonna need em.

I cut the carpet into 2' wide strips and did the floor sections first whittling the sides away so it followed the contour of the tunnel.  Hose it down with spray adhesive, smash it in, and if it wrinkles slit it with a sheetrock knife so it will lay flat.  The tunnel was the hardest part, I ended up wrapping the back of it like a christmas present.  

It doesn't look great up close but it photographs well haha

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
9/13/21 12:35 p.m.

For a cheap interior redo, that came out amazing.

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
9/14/21 8:45 a.m.

Drove it around for about an hour last night which was enough for me to develop some initial impressions and findings both good and bad.

First the bad:

1. My lucky driveshaft vibrates like a SOB.  Like pretty concerning over 35 mph.  Fortunately that's about as fast as you can go in southern CA at 530 on a monday afternoon.  After the drive I pulled it in the garage, jacked it up and spun it and yep about 3/4" of runout.  She's bent, which is a relief to me.  I was worried I would be chasing pinion angles to try to fix it.  Fortunately the smoking gun was easy to find.  Hopefully I can find the same combo of explorer I pulled this one from.

2. After looking over the data logs, my coolant temp sensor is doing some crazy stuff.  It will be stable then bounce around as low as -20.  Seemed to be more prevalant when I was getting on the throttle harder or up to speed- aka vibration related.  Most likely the connector to the sensor as the clip is broken on it and it doesn't engage solidly.

Now the good:

1. The "bad" list is only 2 items long!  

2.  It drove around in miserable southern CA traffic in 100 degree weather and did not get hot, leak a drop, or die unexpectedly.  Temp never got over 197 on the gauge or on the log, with a 195 thermostat i'll take that.

 

Here's my initial driving impressions:

I forgot how much a 4 cyl on stiff poly motor/trans mounts vibrates.  Compared to what i'm used to (200k+ clapped out garbage) this thing feels pretty race car.  I was pleasantly suprised how much torque this thing makes down low.  This was a big concern for me, but it has some decent grunt off the line.  Shifter placement, while awful, is liveable for now.  I'll need to make a stick that kicks back a little though.  It seems surprisingly quick even with the most rough and safe tune.  According to the logs It bumped 112 KPa (~1.5 psi), max throttle input was 40% and I stayed under 4000 rpm.  Even with those light pulls it feels quicker than my '03 2500 silverado with a 6.0 v8 (yeah yeah not saying much but it is the only metric i have).  

Overall a pretty good initial run.

wawazat
wawazat Dork
9/14/21 10:01 a.m.

Wow that's great news on the shake down run!  Minimal follow-up/revisions are a good thing.  

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
9/14/21 3:27 p.m.

Yes, that sounds like the behavior to expect from a loose connection (with the CLT readings). Check both the connector on the sensor and any splices in the wiring, and don't forget the sensor ground side of the wires.

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
9/16/21 8:38 a.m.

Picked this up yesterday at the junkyard.  It is about 3/4" longer than the current shaft I have in there so I will need to cycle the suspension to make sure it won't bottom out.  Sure hope it will fit, I like fixing problems with an upgrade.  Came out of a P71 crown vic.

Worst case I can shorten it.  I've shortened a few steel driveshafts at home with excellent results but never an aluminum one

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
9/24/21 6:54 p.m.

First week of commuting down. Zero issues, just needs a cup holder more tuning and more boost

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
9/24/21 7:17 p.m.

Dude that is berkeleying dope.  Congratulations on how well it runs, and those wheels are cool as E36 M3. Viva 62/63 Falcons.

Ranger50
Ranger50 MegaDork
9/24/21 7:43 p.m.

This makes me want to keep the 66 ranchero in full resto mode instead of selling it....

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
9/26/21 7:11 p.m.

Thanks guys it is getting to be real fun to drive. It is so weird driving this thing now, with the straight 6 you would have to wood it everywhere and you'd still be pissing people off for holding up traffic. Now I have to check myself, it is so easy to break the law and not even realize it. On the freeway boost is instant cruising at 2500 rpm, glad I used restraint when I ordered a turbo.

Slapped this together today out of some scrap ply I had laying around to get some cup holders and tunes. I'll have to get some carpet or something to wrap it with

Opti
Opti Dork
9/26/21 8:21 p.m.

Console and car look good. I'd add some thick foam to the top before I wrapped it.

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
9/27/21 8:50 a.m.

If there is anyone experienced with Duratec or MZR engines reading I have some questions for you-

I'm currently running this thing with nothing controlling the VCT solenoid.  It feels really strong off the bottom, almost freakishly strong for a 4 cylinder.  It seems to nose over around 4500 rpm.  I've taken it to 6k a few times and it just doesnt feel worth it to wind it out any further.  Without knowing what the VCT "defaults" to, my theory is that the intake cam defaults to full retard giving less overlap.  This is why the thing has incredible grunt but flattens out up top.

Does anyone know if my theory is correct?  I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this short of tearing a motor apart in the junkyard and understanding the VCT mechanism for myself.

Here's where I'm going with this- I wouldn't mind giving up a little grunt if there are gains to be had up top.  Is it worth my time to go back into megasquirt soldering land and try to enable the VCT?  Or should I just bite the bullet and put a set of fixed cams in this thing, or at least a fixed intake?

If I go fixed is there a junkyard option for me, possibly a 2.0 or 2.3 stock non vct intake cam that would give decent results?  I have contacts at Esslinger Racing, my dad runs their engines in his dirt track Midget.  I may pick their brain on this, I'm just worried that ends up with me walking out with a set of their cams and a light wallet.

Or should I just shut up and turn up the boost and see what that does first?

Jerry From LA
Jerry From LA SuperDork
9/27/21 7:00 p.m.

I think it's time to wire up the VCT.  You pretty much own everything you need so make it talk to the computer and go for it.

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
9/27/21 7:04 p.m.

Side note, first fill up yielded 20 mpg! Not too bad considering I've been beating on it with a rich tune 

Also I enabled Acceleration Enrichment for the drive home and wow that's exactly what it needed. We've got Walter Rohrl rally heel toe action now!

bentwrench
bentwrench SuperDork
9/27/21 7:06 p.m.

You definitely do not want a midget cam.

If you are boosted you want a turbo cam.

I think you need a MS3 to take advantage of VVT.

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
9/28/21 8:31 a.m.
bentwrench said:

You definitely do not want a midget cam.

If you are boosted you want a turbo cam.

I think you need a MS3 to take advantage of VVT.

Esslinger has a couple turbo cam options, they are doing more than just midget stuff now

https://esslingeracing.com/ford-4-valve-4-cyl-engines-parts/duratec-2-5l/top-end-assemblies-components-4/camshafts-5

metty
metty Reader
9/29/21 1:34 p.m.
mjlogan said:

If there is anyone experienced with Duratec or MZR engines reading I have some questions for you-

I'm currently running this thing with nothing controlling the VCT solenoid.  It feels really strong off the bottom, almost freakishly strong for a 4 cylinder.  It seems to nose over around 4500 rpm.  I've taken it to 6k a few times and it just doesnt feel worth it to wind it out any further.  Without knowing what the VCT "defaults" to, my theory is that the intake cam defaults to full retard giving less overlap.  This is why the thing has incredible grunt but flattens out up top.

Does anyone know if my theory is correct?  I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this short of tearing a motor apart in the junkyard and understanding the VCT mechanism for myself.

Here's where I'm going with this- I wouldn't mind giving up a little grunt if there are gains to be had up top.  Is it worth my time to go back into megasquirt soldering land and try to enable the VCT?  Or should I just bite the bullet and put a set of fixed cams in this thing, or at least a fixed intake?

If I go fixed is there a junkyard option for me, possibly a 2.0 or 2.3 stock non vct intake cam that would give decent results?  I have contacts at Esslinger Racing, my dad runs their engines in his dirt track Midget.  I may pick their brain on this, I'm just worried that ends up with me walking out with a set of their cams and a light wallet.

Or should I just shut up and turn up the boost and see what that does first?

I am sure there are more variants, but most VCT systems ive seen fall into one of two categories - spring loaded to go to one end of the range (i.e. going full retard as you are seeing) or spring loaded to the center of the range and they have to be actuated in both directions

Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
10/5/21 6:53 a.m.

This is such a cool build! I have wanted to do a 2.0 or 2.5 turbo swap in something really bad! They are great little motors, not amazing but plentiful and decent for power with some aftermarket support. 
 

I wanted to drop one in a '60s Ford F100 but im not sure I will be happy with the power. I need to get my '66 on some scales just to see how much she weighs. 
 

As for VCT (or VVT however they want to call it.) My first thought was that you should be able to activate the solenoid at a set RPM kinda like V-tech but it looks a bit more complicated then that. To bad you don't have access to a stock VVT motor and hook up an oscilloscope to see what the stock ECU is doing. 
 

From a quick read it sounds like there is a decent amount of bottom end left of the table with the VVT not activate. 
 

Oh are you on social media? I would love to see more of the car as well as your other projects. Im @petrol360 on Instagram ect. 

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
10/5/21 8:35 a.m.
Skervey said:

This is such a cool build! I have wanted to do a 2.0 or 2.5 turbo swap in something really bad! They are great little motors, not amazing but plentiful and decent for power with some aftermarket support. 
 

I wanted to drop one in a '60s Ford F100 but im not sure I will be happy with the power. I need to get my '66 on some scales just to see how much she weighs. 
 

As for VCT (or VVT however they want to call it.) My first thought was that you should be able to activate the solenoid at a set RPM kinda like V-tech but it looks a bit more complicated then that. To bad you don't have access to a stock VVT motor and hook up an oscilloscope to see what the stock ECU is doing. 
 

From a quick read it sounds like there is a decent amount of bottom end left of the table with the VVT not activate. 
 

Oh are you on social media? I would love to see more of the car as well as your other projects. Im @petrol360 on Instagram ect. 

I have an instagram account but I don't post much on it.

I don't think it is a whole lot more complicated than that, just send it the correct PWM frequency at whatever rpm/load you deem necessary.  To me it feels like the opposite, there seems to be a decent amount of top end on the table without the VCT active.

I really need to work on this, and a boost controller.  I upped the gate spring over the weekend and am now pushing a little under 5 psi.  It feels a little stronger but nothing crazy.  I still need to pull fuel though so it might wake up a bit.  

You would be pretty disappointed with it in an F100.  Even at 5 psi in a 2600(?) lb ranchero I'd describe it as adequate.  I'd still get smoked by a new camry haha.  Maybe look into the V6 duratec's?

bluej (Forum Supporter)
bluej (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
10/5/21 11:48 a.m.

The vct works by the ecu reading the cam position and sending a pwm signal to the oil solenoid that retards or advances the cam towards the target in the tune. 

I don't recall if this was the 2.0/3/5 but it gives you an idea of the stock targets:

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1486804144805614&set=p.1486804144805614&type=3

 

This was after tuning, maybe different vct cams:

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1486804508138911&set=p.1486804508138911&type=3

 

 

STM317
STM317 UberDork
10/5/21 11:58 a.m.
mjlogan said:

If I go fixed is there a junkyard option for me, possibly a 2.0 or 2.3 stock non vct intake cam that would give decent results? 

Duratec 2.3 Rangers were non-VVT with fixed cams. But being a truck application, rumor was that they prioritized low end torque more than most of the car cam profiles, so they may not be what you want here.

It's been awhile since I was looking for Duratec performance stuff, but Crower had several cam profiles a few years ago that might be decent options too.

I also recall VVT delete kits requiring some blockage of oil ports in the cylinder head. There are kits for this, but it may be a consideration you need to make before jumping to fixed cams.

Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
10/5/21 12:49 p.m.

Sounds like the VVT may be more of a chore then we thought. Im sure it can be done though. But it would come down to is it really worth it. It would be nice to look at dyo graphs for VVT vs non-VVT ect. 
 

I heard about a shop here in NC called Focus-Power. I think he is the go to for duratec and zetec focus community. I believe I saw the owner answering lots of questions on focus forms. Maybe worth giving him a call and picking his brain. I think he mostly uses SCT to tune though. 
 

Also with the F100 I know it would be under powered but probably still fun. My daily is a 2012 Ford Fusion 2.5 duratec 3300ish lbs with 170hp. Its no race car but its it can get out of the way if it needs to. A turbo would really open that motor up on yhe top end! I think a small little motor running 10psi would sound amazing and probably get decent gas mileage when I could keep my foot out of it. Plus it would be one less LS swap out in the world. 
 

I was working for a shop for a bit and we did a ecoboost crate motor into a first gen bronco for  a customer. Most of the guys there were big LS fans. They were very surprised when we got the truck on the road. It had no issues turning 35" tires. Of course a ecoboost crate motor isn't a turboed 2.5NA motor but still a fun idea. You can have lots of fun with 300hp. 

mjlogan
mjlogan New Reader
10/5/21 3:05 p.m.
bluej (Forum Supporter) said:

The vct works by the ecu reading the cam position and sending a pwm signal to the oil solenoid that retards or advances the cam towards the target in the tune. 

I don't recall if this was the 2.0/3/5 but it gives you an idea of the stock targets:

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1486804144805614&set=p.1486804144805614&type=3

 

This was after tuning, maybe different vct cams:

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1486804508138911&set=p.1486804508138911&type=3

 

 

Those links aren't working for me.  I am curious about the stock targets.  I am also curious as to what it is doing right now in its disconnected state.  Seat dyno tells me fully retarded- It just doesn't seem like it is pulling very hard after 5000 rpm or so.  That may also be a function of my tuning or lack there of.

I can say it is quite enjoyable to drive around like a normal human being and it would be nice to preserve that and not have it fall flat when you rev it out.

Opti
Opti Dork
10/5/21 3:40 p.m.

In reply to mjlogan :

I just did a quick glance through the VCT operation. I was hoping it was a simple on or off like early BMWs, it does not appear to be though. The solenoid can send oil pressure to either side of the actuator to advance or retard the cam and to maintain a specific position it has to oscillate the solenoid. It does have a default setting but I didnt see info on what type of position that is.

My assumption is to have this working correctly you would need an actual VVT controller on a compatible PCM.

If there is an aftermarket for the engine, you could probably find fixed cam gears, or lockouts to make it a fixed gear and just setup it up for the powerband you want.

2 3 4 5
Our Preferred Partners
lU7dUEwno5mmqbhzBWyTvItZBSPeUEaoR3c5eFSWD8toX6uRvdFT8DTiXXQmHXK1