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Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs None
1/17/20 10:15 a.m.

Hi guys, new here. My builds these days stray so far off the beaten path(even when using conventional cars like mustangs) that I feel I am better off coming to a place like GRM instead. Some details on the build so far:

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The car itself was an old rusty '66 coupe.

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Seemingly endless rust repair later, I started modifications:

 

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And that is pretty much where the project stands...just about to pull the driveline back out for final metalwork and paint and body prep. I Chose the 3.7L for this project because of the factory 305HP, the 30mpg, and most importantly...the 270lb engine weight. I really like the 3.7L, its just a shame there are so few performance parts....I am making more parts with this drivetrain than I ever have before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
1/17/20 10:25 a.m.

What does the electronics look like for the swap? Cnbus isues? Etc.

 

And welcome home. You fit right in!

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs New Reader
1/17/20 10:32 a.m.

Naw, not messing with that nonsense:

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Will be using MS3 with the MS3x card...the unit it running on the stim(built from components, so its always a question mark till you put it on the stim). I will actually prewire and start the engine on the stand when I pull it for bodywork. While I could go through the headache of using the OEM wiring, with the addition of the ITBs I decided that Megasquirt would be the better option...even after I build an airbox and add a MAF sensor back into the equation.

CAinCA
CAinCA New Reader
1/17/20 10:57 a.m.

Wow! I can't even imagine taking on a project like this. It looks like you're having to replace more sheet metal than you're saving from the original chassis. 

I had a 66 6 cyl automatic. It was a fun car. I imagine 305hp will be a hoot. 

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs New Reader
1/17/20 11:05 a.m.

In reply to CAinCA :

Haha, I have...probably replaced close to 70% of the sheet metal, floors fron to back, added torque boxes and subframe connectors, rear quarters, inner and outer wheelhouses, all the sheet metal from the shock towers forward(some frame patching under the battery as well) and bunch of other misc patches here and there, in addition to spiderwebbing the front end of the car....added about 100lbs of metal in chassis stiffening all in all(the light engine more than makes up for it though). The funny thing is the car was running with the original 200ci I6 when I bought it...started up just as easy as any modern engine. It was originally supposed to be a quick flip into a daily driver after a few patches....but with each patch I did, I found the previous owner had some other patch he did wrong, so the project ran away with me...and once I pulled the old engine for the cowl work I decided I may as well swap it while I was at it.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
1/17/20 11:07 a.m.

Grassroots, Gravel driveway...what the hell,same thing! This does not look like a first rodeo, what else you been learning on?

 

Impressive.

 

Pete

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs New Reader
1/17/20 11:31 a.m.
NOHOME said:

Grassroots, Gravel driveway...what the hell,same thing! This does not look like a first rodeo, what else you been learning on?

 

Impressive.

 

Pete

Thanks. This is certainly as far as I have gone on the restoration side. Past project cars include a 1997 Dodge Neon w/ SRT4 engine swap(easy). 1977 Celica RA29 with an SRT4-ish(was a 2.4L Dodge block w/ 420A Mitsu head, SRT4 internals flipped around and SRT4 turbofold) converted to RWD with a Jeep bellhousing and Chevy MA5 5 speed trans...that was a fun head scratcher. I also currently have a Miata I am working on a swap for, and an RX7 with a Ford 2.3T "Folvo"(Ford block, Volvo DOHC head, etc) swap, both those projects are currently idling while I try to finish this one though. None of projects are close to show quality, just fun little home builds...I actually have a concrete bay I can use temporarily if I need to, but since I can do most things just fine on the gravel I have only bothered so far for the subframe connectors since the car needed to be flat.

NOT A TA
NOT A TA SuperDork
1/17/20 11:57 a.m.

Welcome! You'll fit in just fine here.

I have a '66 also. I built a 9", C4, 302 drivetrain and bought a big pile of sheet metal, rear frame rails etc. and then jumped projects around '90. It was my DD in the '80's. Since then it's been stored, moved, stolen, recovered,  moved some more and stored for 30 years now while I've done many other projects. Hopefully I'll live long enough to get back to it.

You've done a lot of work! Will be following.

jimbbski
jimbbski SuperDork
1/17/20 12:42 p.m.

That's the beauty of the Mustang, almost any sheet metal you need to repair rust or crash damage you can just go to a catalog and order it!  I first learned this when a friend who had a body shop took in a '66 Mustang convertable. It didn't need as much work as yours but my friend still replaced near 50% of the sheet metal. It took him a couple of years to do it but it was a "fill in the slow times" sort of project for an old friend of his. It looked good when it was done though.

GhiaMonster
GhiaMonster Reader
1/17/20 3:53 p.m.

That is an impressive amount of metalwork and you wound up with a much stiffer chassis than Ford could ever make! Can't wait to watch this come together. The heads and manifold of a smallblock from that era weigh about half of your total engine.  

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
1/17/20 4:10 p.m.

and the 2020 Grassy for Best First Post goes to Wicked93gs!

welcome aboard!

wheelsmithy
wheelsmithy UltraDork
1/17/20 5:55 p.m.

Wicked, indeed.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
1/17/20 6:12 p.m.

Do you have any friends with this motor in a mustang?  If you do, get an obd recorder so that you can get a really good spark map. 

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs New Reader
1/17/20 6:38 p.m.

I am sure I could get a good base map, but the Cyclone engine has adaptive knock control in the OEM setup...it keeps advancing timing until it detects knock(supposed to make more power if you use premium or race gas). I will likely end up having to tune it from a base ignition map, don't think I am messing with the adaptive portion...I will already have to tune the TI-VCT from scratch...which will be a real PITA if I dont get an airbox setup and a MAF on the ITB setup first...to achieve the 30mpg in a heavy mustang, they also used cylinder shutoff....so a lot of different things to play with...I suspect tuning it well will take me longer than building the car(7 months in right now, hope to be on the road in another 3). The restoration work was pretty quick all things considered....it was things like building a bell-crank setup to actuate the ITBs that took forever:

 

https://youtu.be/LK_1HV0xC6A

 

They are M3 v8 ITBs by the way(I designed the adapter plates with a CAD program and had them cut)....the setup is almost finished, just need to finish building the vacuum and idle system...like I said...building a lot of one-off parts for this thing....just wish some good aftermarket cams were available...could really use an extra 1000RPM of top-end breathing....will see how much of a restriction it becomes after I tune it

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
1/17/20 7:15 p.m.

In reply to Wicked93gs :

I haven't checked in a long time, but the vct position may also be part of the obd output. 
 

Other than that, though, generating the map will be an adventure, as I know there is a base and borderline spark table for each of the Vct locations, which I think there are 10 or so. Good thing you don't also have to map direct injection. 

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs New Reader
1/17/20 7:22 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

Yeah, I am glad the 3.7L(unlike the ecoboost 3.5L) is conventional port injection...the DI on the Ecoboost engines is actually one reason I always dismiss them as potential engines....you are stuck with factory electronics, which limits you in things you can do. I do need to find out all the parameters things like the Bama and SCT tuners can log...I know a few Cyclone people who should be able to grab me a log and if those tuners are capable some actual export data.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
1/17/20 7:27 p.m.

In reply to Wicked93gs :

The ones that take huge dyno time to calibrate are spark and vct, but you just need to add all of the air parameters you can- maf, map, etc. IIRC, ms used map, and I'm not sure how you plan to do the air estimate with ITBs. 
 

You are not making it easy on yourself. 

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs New Reader
1/17/20 8:15 p.m.

Well, MS has an ITB mode that blends Alpha-N and MAP without even using a MAF....for initial startup that is what I will use until I can find a way to build an air box for the ITBs to incorporate a MAF sensor(MS has MAF sensor support, but its purely optional)....I will be starting the engine on the stand to get it to the point it will idle consistently within a couple weeks and don't have time to build an air box before then...but any real tuning is going to be done once the car is back together.

 

Just a couple of pics of other cars of mine:

 

 

My RA29 Celica with its SRT4-ish engine swap. I sold this one, wish I never had though....it was a really fun car, complete budget backyard build, had maybe $2000 in the car including the shell and I drove it everywhere for about 30k miles.

 

This is my other current project car...1991 RX7 with a 2.3T "Folvo" engine...it uses a Ford 2.3L block, custom pistons, 4.6L valvesprings, a 16v DOHC Volvo head, somewhat modified to fit the Ford block...a Holset HE351VE turbo and also has a set of BMW ITBs(contained in an airbox). At this point it is also ready to start up, but I havent finished it just yet since I stupidly bought the Mustang...which got highest priority.

 

 

RossD
RossD MegaDork
1/17/20 8:25 p.m.

This is an awesome project, and welcome.

Maybe its not my place to tell, but Alfadriver might be a really good resource for you! wink

gumby
gumby HalfDork
1/17/20 8:48 p.m.

The Mustang and Celica are awesome. I like the decision to go with the Cyclone.

The Folvo is one combination I have sworn never to do. I love the 2.3T for cheap entry level HP and just can't wrap my head around the ROI with a semi-custom head swap.  Then again, I will soon be attempting to hack an Australian head onto a US 200" Ford I6, so what do I know?

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs New Reader
1/18/20 9:58 a.m.

In reply to gumby :

No, the Folvo swap is a TERRIBLE ROI...sure it flows as well as most other DOHC heads out there, but you are far better off using an engine with an existing DOHC head. I started that conversion years ago when there were no other Ford options aside from a 2.0L Zetec(also started it when the plan was to go into my Merkur....later picked up the RX7 shell in trade and just like the body style better). Its really not that expensive to do the Folvo conversion(I have a spare B234F head in the garage now)....but it IS time consuming and you need to at least notch the pistons as far as internal work goes.

 

As for the crossflow head....if I could have gotten my hands on one of those, I would have stuck with the 200CI the Mustang came with most likely. An option I have been playing with next time I think about an engine swap with and old I6 car is the Jaguar AJ6....its a 250HP NA I6 with DOHC and 24v and all aluminum...but most importantly, unlike most DOHC I6s, the AJ6 retains a distributor....which means a carb conversion would be easy....would love a carbed DOHC I6 running tripple Weber sidedrafts in something like an old Cortina

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs New Reader
1/21/20 3:02 p.m.

 
 
I went ahead and started the ITB vacuum setup....don't have all the 90 degree push to connect swivel fittings yet to finish it, but I did have one of the ones I took off the catch can to test fit...I was worried that regardless of which fittings I used it wouldnt clear the valve cover...and it is tight, but it does clear...will finish the setup once the rest of the fittings come in.
 
 
And this is what I will be using for the idle valve...maybe anyway, I like it, its got a needle valve that opens to a hole in the pipe internally...but in addition to that, the internal pipe can be turned within the body partially blocking the airflow...all in all it makes for a LOT of adjustability...the only bad thing is I think its really larger than I need...which wouldnt be a problem if it didnt mean tapping a 1/2" NPT hole in the vacuum tank(tapping those larger sizes can be difficult sometimes) though I suppose I could just use a reducer?
Vigo
Vigo MegaDork
1/22/20 1:55 p.m.

Really impressive project.   Only problem I've had tapping large NPT into plastic is whether you get enough thread engagement for it to matter that it's npt. Like if you aren't able to tap multiple threads deep (thin material) then you aren't getting the 'self binding sealing effect' of the tapered thread and it might need to be sealed some other way too. SIlicone, epoxy, whatever. 

Really impressed so far. The bellcrank video could be added to one of those 'strangely satisfying' compilation videos. cheeky

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs New Reader
1/22/20 2:09 p.m.

In reply to Vigo :

Thanks. Unfortunately its aluminum and not plastic I am tapping into....aluminum is better than steel, but its still not fun...I just tapped 1/2" NPT into some 1" thick aluminum boss on the oil filter housing flange...I had a hell of time with it...mainly I guess in being able to securely hold the piece and tap it straight....the catch can isn't as bad though anyway...its only 3/8" aluminum...I just doubt I have any drill bit large enough for the starter hole(seem to have lost my expensive step-bit)

OjaiM5
OjaiM5 Reader
1/22/20 2:11 p.m.

I'm sorry if you covered this already, I looked through the thread to see if I could find the answer first. Where are the throttle bodies from? The oddly look like what is on my M5 but with 2 missing. 

And yeah, this is a killer project!

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