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AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/23/21 11:58 a.m.

In reply to classicJackets (FS) :

i have a lathe and a length of oil-impregnated UHMWPE from the scrap bin at Alro in Livonia.  at $3/lb i think each bushing would be about a $0.25 budget hit. 

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
9/23/21 12:51 p.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

After reading the last comment from Apex, I'm wondering if casting urethane is the move to allow some flex? May have to noodle.. I have a new bushing on order to make the mold, if needed

RoddyMac17
RoddyMac17 Reader
9/23/21 1:13 p.m.

1. I see there are different tie rod ends for early/late cars. Is the tie rod change linked to the steering rack (where I would order for the older version), or for the steering arms (where I would order newer to match my disc brake parts)? 

The rack is different and the steering arms are different.  The early rack is BMC the late is Triumph based.  The early rack has 5/8" UNF threads for the tie rods, late is 1/2" UNF, plus the taper sizes are different.  Luckily, the steering arms can be swapped, the early arms were used with both drum and disc brakes (part number BTA 648 and 649).  Any idea what year your disc brake set up came from?  

GM > MG
GM > MG New Reader
9/23/21 2:13 p.m.
classicJackets (FS) said:

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

After reading the last comment from Apex, I'm wondering if casting urethane is the move to allow some flex? May have to noodle.. I have a new bushing on order to make the mold, if needed

That's interesting, I would have thought the opposite and would would not want flex there, for a track car.

But I'm not a big suspension guy by any stretch so hopefully he will jump back in and share some info. That would be cool...

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/23/21 3:34 p.m.

In reply to GM > MG :

Those bushings will deflect as the body rolls in cornering, or as the axle torque is reacted into the chassis under power. If the bushings are solid, the arms will twist. And if the arms are too stiff to twist, the spring rate effectively goes to infinity and that's no bueno for keeping the tires on the ground.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
9/26/21 7:44 p.m.
RoddyMac17 said:

1. I see there are different tie rod ends for early/late cars. Is the tie rod change linked to the steering rack (where I would order for the older version), or for the steering arms (where I would order newer to match my disc brake parts)? 

The rack is different and the steering arms are different.  The early rack is BMC the late is Triumph based.  The early rack has 5/8" UNF threads for the tie rods, late is 1/2" UNF, plus the taper sizes are different.  Luckily, the steering arms can be swapped, the early arms were used with both drum and disc brakes (part number BTA 648 and 649).  Any idea what year your disc brake set up came from?  

This is super helpful, but no I'm not sure. I'll check PN here in a bit. Otherwise, I do still have the rack from the disc brake cut.. it's ugly, but sounds like I could maybe still make it work with new rods.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
9/26/21 7:48 p.m.

Good news for today: I got a regular sized stock gas tank for free, and got a $30 Autopower main hoop (both parts from a longtime GRM/CM subscriber), and contact info for someone who has a complete Autopower bar (or 2) in the Ann Arbor area 

Bad news for today: this main hope used to be complete and someone cut/ground the welds off where bars were before, you can feel some uneven-ness in the tubing.. but sure enough this would pass tech to want to for sure use it.

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
9/26/21 7:53 p.m.

In reply to classicJackets (FS) :

What's your target ET?  Also what's the diameter and  wall thickness on that bar?  Got enough to make a 5 point?

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
9/26/21 8:02 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

Autopower bars are marketed as 1.75" x .120, and I don't have enough/any material to add rear braces or door bar to this.. hoping that with a "complete" bar where all I would need to add is the door bar I could get to NHRA legal for sub-13.49. All the chat from people who have run drags before makes me think the car is more than capable, so I am hoping I can set it up to be legal.

Right now with Disc Brakes in the budget and Roll cage budgeted at $50 I have a good bit over $200 left to spend, so I'm hoping I can get hardware, door bar, and FMV 1/8" plates at that cost (I have some 1/8" at cheap budget but not enough for all the 6x6 plates I need).

Plus would/will have to get the better battery cut-off for that.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
9/27/21 1:14 p.m.

Aaand the free gas tank looks about like you'd expect. Will need to do something to patch these holes/keep gas from sloshing out. I also expect I should let some evaporust soak in there for a little while, or something of the sort, to clean some crud out.

GM > MG
GM > MG New Reader
9/28/21 10:52 a.m.

Are you going to cut out the soft section, back to good metal and patch in new? Or try and spot the small holes?

I tried spots on a reg. body panel very sim. look to that - it got messy. Ended up cutting & patching.

 

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
9/28/21 11:11 a.m.

Your best bet for a tank repair might be an epoxy fix. 

I wont weld on a tank once it has been used. Allergic to explosions.

Going to be hard to spot weld the holes. 

Woody (Forum Supportum)
Woody (Forum Supportum) MegaDork
9/28/21 12:13 p.m.

In reply to classicJackets (FS) :

Can you find a free lawnmower locally that will get you enough gas tank to get through the Challenge?

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Dork
9/28/21 12:35 p.m.

Braze not weld.
Fill partially with water first.

I've also heard of dry-ice being used to displace oxygen, making an explosion impossible.
Do not breath the dry-ice.

If you are going to replace it after the event a good epoxy should take care of it with good metal prep.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
9/28/21 12:38 p.m.

Even filled with water, i had a small explosion when a gas fume air pocket lit off. 

Not fun. Pretty sure I E36 M3 myself. 

Wish i hadn't scrapped the boat gas tank i had. Ida given it to you.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
9/28/21 1:04 p.m.

In reply to classicJackets (FS) :

There are multiple fuel cells on FB Marketplace for $50 and a boat tank in Whitmore Lake for $20.

 

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
9/28/21 1:27 p.m.

In reply to Several :

After reading about it in another thread, I had been figuring on just using some JB weld to patch those pinholes up - it sounds like it's pretty resistant to Gas and I already have some on hand.

It's clearly not completely done, but this framing/reinforcement is how we figured I could reinforce the floor with enough strength to hold the tank. The panel that Angry made will have ~7 3/16" rivets to the license plate reinforcement area (with additional panel on the other side, resulting in a 3-layer sandwich), and this bolt-in bed frame brace will reach back up towards cleaner metal near the front of the car to provide more support. 

With the JB weld on the tank and the reinforcement done/bolted in I will feel pretty confident - the whole rear is already much, much stiffer - even with just the file-cabinet panel and the bed frame cross-brace with sheet metal screws, and this should take it much further.

Still - if the hive has concerns, I'd rather hear them now than in tech at the challenge!

 

 

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
9/28/21 10:55 p.m.

Angry came over again today and we got some stuff knocked out and noodled on some more.

Rear half reinforcement I'm going to call done - needs to get bolted in and tightened down but should be good to go. I added a couple little pieces of file cabinet drawer front to rivet or do small bolts through on the floor flats between the frame/where there's no other tie-in to stronger metal.

I slathered some JB weld over the pinholes in the gas tank - all it has to do is hold!

Angry devised a sweet little firewall template (that I cut the wrong way into the diamond plate) to the passenger floorboard, where we'll probably run the Trans cooler lines and where I'll mount the battery - seems like with the firewall I don't need a battery box.

We then noodled proper way to get a seat if any kind in the car, and came away with some ideas.

Also got a trailer brake controller installed on my Expedition today. Im borrowing FIL's overkill trailer for this trip and needed one to be able to pull it. He is getting it serviced/tires checked as well which will be nice peace of mind for us!

autocomman
autocomman New Reader
9/29/21 9:47 a.m.

There is one company that makes poly bushings for the rear arms.  Don't bother with rubber, they last a year with minimal driving.  I did mine so long ago though I can't remember the company.

 

Definitely do a rear panhard bar!! Frontline makes a nice kit, not too pricey.  My car never felt that great, even with poly rear bushings.  Then I did the panhard.  Holy crap!  You could tell just driving down the street at 15mph it was totally different.  Flipped a few corners and the car was co.pletly transformed from an old feeling British car to something on rails.  It was nuts!

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/29/21 9:47 a.m.

LOL diamond side in?!?!

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
9/29/21 9:56 a.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Yeah, I cut it the wrong way the first time like a dummy, I'm trimming to improve fit on V2.0 today.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
9/29/21 8:56 p.m.

Good things happening today.

Fuel tank is in, need to replace the nuts that support it though as they do not thread freely. Tucks up much nicer than the double tank did! Everything felt really sturdy, and I only have a single 1/8" rivet from the floor to the license plate area right now, so I think it will firm up even more.

 

I had saved the return and feed fuel lines from my Camaro when I replaced them due to rust, and I was able to cut/straighten a section of return to use here with 5/16" hose. The fuel pump side was a pain to get the 5/16" over, seemed like it was made for a larger line, but the fuel pump outlet feels okay. With a new carb-side inlet (one on there took 7/16" hose), I'll have a fuel system!

 

Last, I got a tab welded to the body and a handle added to the battery firewall. The battery will sit here, and ATF cooler lines will route behind this firewall and out further forward to avoid direct contact with the exhaust manifold.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
10/1/21 12:25 p.m.

Angry was over again last night and we worked and got the trans lines and battery cables routed behind my new makeshift firewall! Good/bad news is the servicing for cables/etc will probably need to be done through the top - had to grommet the firewall to get battery cables back to the cutoff switch on the cowl!

I also threw the driver's side exhaust back on to see about an idea for chassis bracing we were thinking through, more on that in the next few days.

​​​​

So now: fuel lines are in (tank has a little more JB weld hardening), trans lines and battery lines are rerouted/finalized and away from the exhaust, and rear tires will be mounted this weekend.

Things are happening!

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/1/21 2:42 p.m.

i always feel like i'm slowing things down, but it's fun to contribute to the design and execution.  Mr Jackets works a lot faster than i do.  

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
10/6/21 2:48 p.m.

Been a minute since posting here, but I've been asking questions about harnessing over on the GRM forum.

In the pursuit of safer seating, Patrick and I cut out the gas pedal and regrouped. That allowed me to scoot further forward in the car, which lets me get lower than the bar, which is ideal. So, now I'm slicing and dicing gas/brake pedals to get clearance for the pedals and my feet.

To this:

 

From this:

 

To this:

(Sidenote: I am thinking I will route the cable in this dead space off to the right. I can add a tab for the cable stop there, and it will be out of the way of where my shoe can reach)

The pedal needs maybe 40° of travel to actuate enough to open the carb all the way, and if I mount the cable off the top that number goes down pretty quickly.

 

Last up is the brake pedal - more clearance was needed from the last picture for gas pedal/toe room.

So- out comes 1x1 (1/8" wall) tubing, 3/16" gussets, and 1/8" plate (last 2 from exercise bike).

 

Reinforce, then cut, then cut again to ensure no interference to footwell before full travel, then weld. All that's left is to get the pedal "pad" attached and cut off the remainder of the old brake pedal arm to actually get the Clearance.

 

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