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David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/24/21 7:58 p.m.
Indy "Nub" Guy said:

This image has been burned into my head for years:

 

I'd love to build something exactly like it.  It combines my love of classic hot rod looks, with the size and handling of British sports cars.  I've tried to get as much information about it as I can, but best I can tell is that it's a Bugeye tub on a Triumph Spitfire chassis.

 

Perhaps you could pull off something similar as a stepping stone to your ultimate goal.  That would allow you time to get the current "eyeless" bonnet sorted out while enjoying the car.

Hey, I took that photo! Yep, Bugeye body on a Spitfire chassis. Somehow it all worked. 

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
8/24/21 8:04 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Wow.  Do you happen to have any other pics of it or additional info ?

 

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/24/21 9:40 p.m.

In my endless goal to multitask appropriately I'm preparing to order rear tires, which should approximate to a 205/70R14.. there are really nice DOT drag tires from a company called M&H in appropriate sizing, but they are seemingly indefinitely out of stock.. so, next best in same approximate OD is a Cooper Cobra or BFG Radial TA.

AWSX1686 (Forum Supporter)
AWSX1686 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
8/25/21 10:30 a.m.

Following along!

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/26/21 6:46 a.m.

"new" engine mounts secured, as well as new water temp gauge (hoping to call it 1/3 of 18.99 as long as I don't use the other 2 gauges), and a variety of electrical connections on the cheap.

 

What do other Challengers do for battery? Used from junkyard? Obviously have to have one, but not sure where I can get a cheap one that will start the 350 haha

 

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
8/26/21 8:18 a.m.

In reply to classicJackets (FS) :

My local autoparts store has offered to sell me a returned core when the time comes. He says they get cores that are perfectly good and he has $18 in each one. That's less than the local junkyards charge. I just won't have much choice of size. The other way would be to see if it'll start with a lawn tractor battery because they're pretty cheap. I bought one this week for $48, 360 amps, which happens to be the same size as a Miata battery that goes for $139 !

Edit: Second thought...that $48 probably was after a core charge for my old battery ,too.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/26/21 8:41 a.m.

I've oft wondered if you could get by with no battery and only a jump pack. 

Especially on a car that has very little electrical load while driving...

I guess it would take a little thought, but I wonder if you hook the two battery cables together with a big relay, and connect the + jump pack to the + of the electrical system with the same relay. Basically use the jump pack voltage as the relay signal, and when the relay is energized the two battery cables are isolated but the + cable is connected to the + jump pack. When the relay is not energized, the two battery cables are connected and the + + are isolated.

That making any sense?

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/26/21 11:39 a.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

I would have to draw it out to say I get it, but I'm grasping the concept..

 

My thoughts this morning:

Can I turn free, curb-pickup Foxbody parts into a better functional suspension? I'll have nearly $500 into tapered wheel bearing, refreshed front end disc brakes for the stock suspension l, and that's not including the budget exempt parts. Feels insane..

 

Foxbody parts are crossmember, steering rack with tie rods and partial steering shaft, lower arms, hubs/calipers.. so would need springs/shocks, and to adapt the crossmember and brake lines...

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
8/26/21 12:55 p.m.

In reply to classicJackets (FS) :

Since Fox bodies are strut cars you'll have to fabricate an upper strut support structure. Certainly doable, but that's sort of how the scope creep in my Challenge build got started. Think it out completely before you cut anything.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
8/26/21 1:27 p.m.

Did you not mention picking up a Mustang II front suspension in an earlier post? That would seem to me to be a better choice for the Bugeye than a Fox body strut set up.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/26/21 1:39 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

 

I did, and here are all 3 of them together. The Mustang 2 front end would probably be a better bet, but I partially scare myself away from that one since it's all stock suspension. I know people give a lot of credibility to Mustang 2 style suspension, more than the actual stock equipment.

Edit: I also paid $140 for the Mustang 2 stuff, where the Foxbody was truly free.

Double edit: this is cart before the horse regardless, it needs to run/drive first one way or another.. but I won't have money for harness bar/battery/misc if I dump almost 500 into brakes/front end

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
8/26/21 2:09 p.m.

My gut says you can easily spend the $140 delta getting materials, struts, and top mounts created for the Fox front. The Mustang II looks complete, assuming the ball joints are good. You have the Fox R&P steering gear that could be made to work with the MII clip ( depending where the pivot points fall) and you have the MII sway bar. The other thing to consider is the point in space where the top of the Fox struts will be. Possibly above the Bugeye fender line? There's a good reason why hotrodders have used the MII clips for so long, it's a pretty compact set up. Cost up both options after inspecting all the parts. Are the MII shocks usable, or is that going to increase the $140?  How does either clip line up with the Bugeye structure? Fun, isn't it? wink

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/26/21 2:55 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

MII is super crunchy (see below), but would probably cost much less to refresh than the Bugeye stuff. The Mii frame rails are also 8" wider than the Bugeye, so there would be lots of ground to make up

 

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
8/26/21 4:45 p.m.

In reply to classicJackets (FS) :

Evoporust and a wire brush are budget exempt.  Just sayin'

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/26/21 10:01 p.m.

Got out tonight and worked some on both mounting the shifter to the tunnel (should be good to go in the next day or two, weather dependent), and to see if I could get the 17" seat I have to work with a little lift in the front - looks promising. I also noticed that since mounting the trans properly, I now can't pull the shifter into 1st gear. I will likely just need to shim the mounts some, but I may hold off until I get the engine on it's "new" mounts to see if that levels it off any better. 

 

I also threw together the numbers on what the various front end options will cost in the budgety, assuming I can make any of them happen by Challenge time... Under 2 months to go.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/28/21 4:55 p.m.

Figured I'd share some images of the "structure" that's under the car, and also the image of the shift linkage..

Looks like I must have shifted the trans over ~1/2" or more when I took it from 2x4 to mount, and now the linkage can't travel past the trans pan. I'll drop the steel Tonight and see if moving it laterally gives me first back, so I can slot the hole for the trans mount more.

2x4s are my mockup for how to get the seat right.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/28/21 9:24 p.m.

Bad news - messing with transmission placement didn't allow me first gear, going to have to figure out what's going on/what else changed from before..

Tried to get a front seat mount done tonight - made a sweet paper template, and all the bends immediately snapped the angle iron.. so, back to the drawing board, and I used a few sections of a free exercise bike I picked up to make the new version, which I'm fairly happy with. I'll tack it together tomorrow and see if I can get it to match up with a seat hole before building the other.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/29/21 1:33 p.m.

Hockey puck engine mounts are in, old ones were completely knackered.. gave me an extra 1/4" - 1/2"  clearance on driver's side exh manifold to the foot well. Good start!

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UltimaDork
8/29/21 2:59 p.m.
classicJackets (FS) said:

Figured I'd share some images of the "structure" that's under the car, 

 

 

 

 

 

What....  How is the frame rail attached to the rest of the car?...

 

I think it needs just about a tube chassis treatment in front of the firewall at this point...

Scratch that, tie it into a cabin cage with rear suspension ties and be done with it, it looks like it would fold in half at an autocross as is...

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Dork
8/29/21 3:35 p.m.

That looks like it was done by the same guy that put a live axle into my GT-6!
Maybe he heard about Colin Chapman using the engine as a structural member?
I see some channel steel going vertical but not where it ends up.
The rear shell is structural too, so the gap at the rear has to be fixed.

Hoping that once the Challenge is over this one may be upgraded to Safe & Sane, as the Firecracker packages used to advertise.

DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue Reader
8/29/21 6:06 p.m.
classicJackets (FS) said:

In my endless goal to multitask appropriately I'm preparing to order rear tires, which should approximate to a 205/70R14.. there are really nice DOT drag tires from a company called M&H in appropriate sizing, but they are seemingly indefinitely out of stock.. so, next best in same approximate OD is a Cooper Cobra or BFG Radial TA.

That's an incredibly tall, narrow, high-profile tire with a very hard rubber compound.  Doubtless they would have been a phenomenal performance tire in 1978 or so, but by 2021 standards, it seems a very odd choice and likely to handicap you significantly.  I know the car came to you with the same tall and skinny E78 tires it was built with in the good old days (assuming somewhere in the 1960s), but other than appealing to very old-timey aesthetic, what's driving the decision to run a hard 205/70R14 tire?

Super cool build either way.  My dad's first car was a beautifully built smooth-hood Bugeye with 5-3/4" headlights in sugar scoops out on the fenders, and he's always regretted selling it.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/29/21 6:35 p.m.

In reply to DarkMonohue :

At this point, the car is looking to be handicapped either by drum brakes in the front, or by potentially having the engine pull the front of the car away at the firewall.. I don't think the car is fleshed out enough to take full advantage of any of it's good aspects, and I don't mind tire limiting myself and the cars performance for that reason. I also like the look of the big-and-tall rear tire with the 13" up front

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/29/21 6:42 p.m.
Apexcarver said:
classicJackets (FS) said:

Figured I'd share some images of the "structure" that's under the car, 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What....  How is the frame rail attached to the rest of the car?...

 

I think it needs just about a tube chassis treatment in front of the firewall at this point...

Scratch that, tie it into a cabin cage with rear suspension ties and be done with it, it looks like it would fold in half at an autocross as is...

If I say poorly, does that cover it? I had planned to pull the engine and try to brace better, but I'm almost not sure where to tie in..

Frame rail in the foreground of each picture.

Edit: I also have a Hobart 140 welder, so even equipped with budget tubing, I don't have the welder (or tubing bender) to probably do things well enough to pass a true inspection

DarkMonohue
DarkMonohue Reader
8/29/21 6:48 p.m.
classicJackets (FS) said:

...potentially having the engine pull the front of the car away at the firewall...

Had to chuckle at that image. You reminded me of a grade school classmate who bragged that the engine in his uncle's Mustang was so fast that it outran the car and pulled itself right through the radiator.  His uncle said it, Victor believed it, and there was no convincing him that that's just not how cars work.

Anyway, there's some logic in your approach.  And it does look badass.  Carry on! 

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
8/31/21 12:00 p.m.

Anyone ever seen an exhaust flange adapter? Really funky looking piece..

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