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Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/23/20 7:52 a.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Working on my LBC's that were built in the 70's and knowing how much they sold for new, I will often get reminded of why these manufacturers mostly went bankrupt. As I would sit an wonder, "how in the hell did they assemble this on a production line quickly and make money?"  It's something I've learned when working on my more modern cars. There's usually a production-line logic to how they went together, which makes taking them apart a little easier. It may take some time to figure out that logic, but it generally is there.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
4/23/20 8:11 a.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Well done! 
You wouldn't believe how often vacuum hoses leaking cause a lot of Otherwise good Jaguars to wind up in junk yards. 
Under-hood temps are pretty high and Sir William Lyons was a notorious penny pincher in his attempt to make a profit as a small volume manufacturer.  
When you add his loyalty to British suppliers you understand why rubber products have a shorter safe operating life. 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
4/23/20 8:17 a.m.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Working on my LBC's that were built in the 70's and knowing how much they sold for new, I will often get reminded of why these manufacturers mostly went bankrupt. As I would sit an wonder, "how in the hell did they assemble this on a production line quickly and make money?"  It's something I've learned when working on my more modern cars. There's usually a production-line logic to how they went together, which makes taking them apart a little easier. It may take some time to figure out that logic, but it generally is there.

That logic is brilliant.  
I can't tell you how many times I'd be crawling under the dash trying to access something, swearing, scraping my knuckle, banging my elbow, twisting my wrench one painful click at a time. When the real solution would have been to drop the whole dash or tackle it from an entirely different direction. 
 

Thank You. 

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/23/20 10:26 a.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Well done! 
You wouldn't believe how often vacuum hoses leaking cause a lot of Otherwise good Jaguars to wind up in junk yards. 
Under-hood temps are pretty high and Sir William Lyons was a notorious penny pincher in his attempt to make a profit as a small volume manufacturer.  
When you add his loyalty to British suppliers you understand why rubber products have a shorter safe operating life. 

Yeah, nothing under the hood looked suspicious of not currently working, but none of it was confidence inspiring either. Much of it looks factory. 32 years is a pretty good service life (if it truly is factory).

New rubber never hurts.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/1/20 10:49 a.m.

I've begun to refer to this "belts and rad hoses" job as "project scope creep". 

All coolant touching rubber in the car has now been replaced, all vacuum lines in the engine bay replaced (except the two that go into the cabin for the HVAC - need to figure out where the other ends are located). All gas lines except the three I'm finalizing are replaced. Each injector is connected to the fuel rail with soft fuel line. Fun. I bought 5 feet of high pressure fuel injection fuel line for this project and I might not have enough. 

Working on this car is exactly as you say Ian. The factory installation order. There is so much "can't get a wrench or screwdriver or ratchet on that hose clamp until you remove this vacuum line. And to remove that vacuum line you need to remove this coolant hose. And to remove that coolant hose you need to get under the AFM, etc"

Once the fuel line is back on I can put the ignition system and intake track back together, and then the thermostat housing, radiator fan and shroud, and then refill with coolant. Then I'll be ready to change the oil so this is ready for summer.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/2/20 8:52 a.m.

Took a break from the madness last night and instead spent about 1.5 hours removing 3 fuel lines and installing 5. All the fuel lines are done. 

The fuel line barbs are evil though. They really hold the hoses BOTH directions, so often the hoses are equally as hard to install as they are to remove. I was using a knife to cut off the old hoses - trying to be careful not to score the barbs - and I was using silicone spray lube inside the new hoses just to push them on. I'm pretty sure I had the right size, unless there is some sort of ridiculous English-sized fuel line I'm not aware of. 

There are 11 soft fuel lines in the engine bay of this car. I said before I bought 5 ft of line to replace it all. I ended up with 2 inches extra. 

Pretty sure there is an NHRA rule against that much soft fuel line in the engine bay. 

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 Dork
6/2/20 11:21 a.m.

Your experience with the barbs is standard for any soft line injection setup. My Fiat and a Datsun 280Z use the same sizes as the Jag, and they are, um, difficult....

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/7/20 10:21 a.m.

Got it almost all buttoned up. There were a couple brackets with rust starting so I threw a quick spray of paint on them and let them dry rather than fully install everything. I really hope there are no leaks!

I did clean up the thermostat housing using a whiz wheel I got in my grm new years echange box! THANKS!!

From:

To:

Not perfect but a lot better. 

Here's a picture of all the rubber that has been removed and replaced:

It's a lot of GD hose clamps. Many of the things in the engine bay have 'just' enough room to get a wrench on. The 4 fan nuts have to be installed in two stages, because if you tighten one, the studs are too long to fit the other nuts on.

Ie, you can tell this is a classic car from working on it. It is clearly not engineered for maintenance. I've probably got 30 hours in this job so far, and still need to do the oil change and fuel filter change (assuming there are no leaks from all the work I just did!)

I am excited to drive this again soon.

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
6/7/20 12:18 p.m.
docwyte said:

As long as you expect to spend a lot of time wrenching on it and perhaps some time stuck on the side of the road, go for it.  I think to expect it to be a reliable daily driver is probably a big stretch. 

Old cars need constant attention, even more so if you plan on using them as a real car vs a fun weekend ice cream car.

Maintenance has already been mentioned.

I find myself baffled by all the claims of older cars being inherently unreliable. I actually find the newer cars less reliable with their plethora of fragile electrical widgets.

If you ignore them like the newer cars, expecting them to magically adjust themselves as if they had an ECU, then yes they will be less reliable.

There was a time when it was the norm to spend a day each month looking after the family car, now it's all about an extended warranty, ignore the car until it fails at big $$$, and then scrap it. Rinse & repeat.

I will be working on completing a rear brake job on Mom's XK6 today. Would not have been that big of a job if I had not been interrupted with a move of shop and home in the middle of it.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/22/20 10:22 a.m.

Finally topped up all the coolant yesterday and took it for some driving. Running great.

Need to add a bit of trans fluid, need to change oil (the oil on the dipstick looks clean but it is really thin, it drips off easily, I'm not sure it's the right weight). Need to swap fuel filter, and fix fuel tank switching system.

 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
6/22/20 11:13 a.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

The oil should be 20w50. I know it seems heavy but that's because the engine was basically designed in WW2  and the old tooling they used right up to the point Ford bought them required pretty loose tolerances. You will be shocked at how much oil is required. The Jaguar factory recommended Castrol oil and that's what I used in the many decades of racing.  
On Jaguars it's most important to change oil based on time rather than  mileage. They just aren't used enough  to remove the build up of acids that occurs over time.  The factory calls for oil change every 4 months. 
 

That transmission will be the old Borg Warner. ( aluminum bell housing, Iron case)  40,000 miles or 8 years maximum.  If you don't have records of when the  last fluid change was I'd suggest you don't delay.  Those old Borg Warner's were designed in the early 1950's  and they aren't easy to get rebuilt anymore. The last American car that used them was the Studebaker.  

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/24/20 11:07 a.m.

Thanks for the recommendation on oil. Frustratingly, the owners manual basically any oil weight is used. I'm quoting directly:

  • Temps above 14F - 10w40, 10w50, 15w50, 20w40, 20w50
  • Temps between -4F t0 50F 10w30, 10w40, 10w50
  • Temps below 14F - 5w20, 5w30

Crazyness. 

I did swap the fuel filter last night and the old filter looked pretty recent, and all the fuel that dripped out of it looked clean. So that's good. I also played around with the tank switching switch. Here's where I am. 

  1. The right tank supply is blocked off, as well as the evap lines to it. The return line is still connected. This was done before I bought it - for some unknown reason, presumably there was an issue with leaking or filling one tank from the other or something.
  2. There are 3 voltage controlled fuel switches. One return to each tank, and one tank supply selector. All 3 work on the same voltage signal. So when 0V is supplied, left tank return is open, right tank return is closed, and the tank supply selector draws from left. When 12V is applied, all 3 should switch poles. 
  3. The tank supply valve gets 12V from the switch, and also physically clicks both when I apply 12V and remove 12V. This would seem to indicate it is working (but I don't fully believe that yet). 
  4. Way back when I looked at the car prior to buying, I selected the right tank while idling. This made the right tank overfill and leak on the ground. If the tank selector switch was not working, this would mean fuel was drawn from the left tank and returned to the right tank, and the car would still run. This seems to line up with reality. However, if the selector switch WAS working, then the blocked off right tank supply line should have made the car die due to lack of fuel. 

So I think, even though the selector valve seems to be working, it may not be. An easy test may be to let the car idle while the right tank is selected and see if I dies due to lack of fuel. Taking it apart to test will make a mess of spilled fuel, and I'd love to do that only once. 

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 Dork
6/24/20 11:00 p.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

I have seen one of the valves that clicked fail to completely close in the closed mode due to crud.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/18/20 8:07 p.m.

Haven't fixedthe fuel tank switching yet, but I have been driving around a bit (not much driving to do these days).

Yesterday I took it for a couple trips no problem, got home, parked in driveway, and when I went to park in the garage later that night no start. No crank. Hmmm 

Checked the battery had plenty of voltage, and then checked the internet for the pinout of the starter relay. Using a nail I applied 12v to the hot wire for the starter solenoid, and it cranked beautifully. That allowed me to get into the garage at least. 

So, I still need to check the neutral safety switch, but at this point I'm suspicious of the starter relay. Jag forums seem to indicate it's a common failure and that you can take the switch apart to clean and service it. I'll likely be trying that soon!

yupididit
yupididit PowerDork
8/2/20 12:29 p.m.

I just tripped over a 1979 xj6 that looks exactly like yours but I think it's a long wheel base. The rear seats seem like they're reclined. 

 

Oh and it has a carbed 350 sbc. 

 

Anyway, he is asking like $800 and hasn't been able to sell it.  

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/21/20 9:44 a.m.
yupididit said:

I just tripped over a 1979 xj6 that looks exactly like yours but I think it's a long wheel base. The rear seats seem like they're reclined. 

 

Oh and it has a carbed 350 sbc. 

 

Anyway, he is asking like $800 and hasn't been able to sell it.  

Didn't see this - sounds cool! Did you buy it?

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/21/20 9:46 a.m.

So I finally got around to checking the neutral safety switch (working) and the starter relay last night.

As suspected, the relay was the culprit.

Also, I was able to take it apart, clean it, reassemble, and reinstall. Car starts beautifully as before!

Now as the weather is cooling down it's time to do some driving

yupididit
yupididit PowerDork
8/21/20 9:48 a.m.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:
yupididit said:

I just tripped over a 1979 xj6 that looks exactly like yours but I think it's a long wheel base. The rear seats seem like they're reclined. 

 

Oh and it has a carbed 350 sbc. 

 

Anyway, he is asking like $800 and hasn't been able to sell it.  

Didn't see this - sounds cool! Did you buy it?

No lol. I offered him $400. It was in worse shape than the pics suggested and I just wanted the wheels and some other parts. He's very firm on $800. I guess it'll just sit in his mom's garage forever lol

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/24/21 7:38 p.m.

Well, another long time since an update, and mostly just been driving on sunny days. Late October though the master cylinder started failing, so I haven't been driving since, just waiting on finding the right time to fix.

I also figured since I'd have the brakes apart, I might as well replace the flexible brake lines.

I'm happy to report that everything under the car is nearly perfectly rust free, and all the fasteners came off and went back on with little fuss. Good thing however, because I'm pretty sure this job would be near impossible if the fasteners gave any sort of fight at all. 

For example, look how much non-access there is to the top of the rear brake line fitting:

Perfect. Add to it these front lines that you need a wrench on both sides of the wheel well:

I mean really Jaguar? Couldn't run the hard line one inch longer through the wheel well bulkhead so that both wrenches could be on one side? Really?

Anyway, the 3 soft lines are changed, the master is bench bled, and the master is changed. I needed more brake fluid so I had to stop and the bleeding will hopefully happen tomorrow. Hopefully.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/25/21 10:32 a.m.

Well, bleeding didn't go 100% as planned this morning. still in progress. 

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 SuperDork
1/25/21 3:26 p.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

On the assembly line when these cars were built putting all of the hardware on the same side of the wheel house would have eliminated a worker. The unions would never permit such labour reduction.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/25/21 3:46 p.m.
TurnerX19 said:

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

On the assembly line when these cars were built putting all of the hardware on the same side of the wheel house would have eliminated a worker. The unions would never permit such labour reduction.

Is that the same reason they have all those extraneous 'U's'? Gotta employ the typists and they are paid by the letter?

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
3/7/21 2:56 p.m.

Last Friday was the 11 yr anniversary of my first date with my wife. So even though there was a pandemic we braved the cold and went to downtown chicago to eat at a nice restaurant on their patio. Of course we took the Jag!

It was a bit dusty from sitting in the garage all winter so I didn't take any photos. Also, the power steering belt was a bit loose so the parking garage was a hilarious adventure. Squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak. Other than that totally painless. This jag really does drive nicely. 

Yesterday I popped out my 9/16th wrench and gave the belt a little more tension. ahh. Now we steer like butter (and silently too). I did notice that I've still got a bit of a coolant leak at the front of the motor. Might be the water pump weep hole. Really feeling now like I shoulda done the water pump last year when I had the front of the motor all apart...

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
3/7/21 3:01 p.m.

Also, yesterday was the last day I could easily take some good photos of both red and green jags in a while. So I got some photos.

singleslammer
singleslammer PowerDork
3/8/21 3:37 p.m.

Man, that red one is a beaut.

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