tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
7/9/21 8:37 a.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The brake pads on hybrids and EVs are even more susceptible to seizing due to lack of use compared to ICE vehicles.  IIRC, Tesla recommends disassembly and cleaning/lubricating every two years.  Obviously, your local salt content will play a role in how critical this is, personally I find two years to be a bit long, that's a 7000-10,000 mile service here and half the time a hammer is required to get the pads out.  If the brakes truly never get used, the rotors will be rust balls by then, too.

 

Still a small price to pay, but brakes are one of those "use 'em or lose 'em" things like tires.

I think they are stainless on the Bolt. I've gone weeks without using them and they look brand new. Even after heavy humid days when the minivan rotors look icky after a day or two of sitting, the Bolt rotors still look shiny and new.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/9/21 9:29 a.m.

You guys are going to make me pull off the aero covers and see what the rotors look like.

Slippery
Slippery UberDork
7/9/21 3:07 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

And please, leave them off. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/9/21 4:09 p.m.

Nope, because we're going on a highway trip this weekend and that's worth an extra 3% range :) But I might pull them off when I get home, just for a change. I have come to appreciate the way they suit the spaceship nature of the car in general.

And the rotors look brand new. They must be coated with something because there's not a sign of any corrosion anywhere including on the hats. Even in our dry climate, I'd expect to see a bit after our trips through the snow even if it was just some light brown discoloration. Nothin', they could have just come out of the bead blaster. They could actually be stainless, the color looks right.

The reason I was looking at the car was because Janel came to get me, all excited, and wanted to show me something in the car. She started playing tennis a couple of months ago and had a game with a friend this morning. The Tesla was parked nose in to the tennis court and someone set off the Sentinel monitoring by walking in front of the car. So the car obediently saved a 10 minute video of Janel playing tennis and she thought it was hilarious. I got a narrated play-by-play of the footage from her :)

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/9/21 5:58 p.m.

We're gonna put ESPN out of business. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/9/21 7:28 p.m.

Since everyone has been asking: yes, you can fit a 2WD reverse rotation split case 6 speed Subaru transmission in the Tesla without dropping the back seat. 
 

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago UltraDork
7/9/21 7:40 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Since everyone has been asking: yes, you can fit a 2WD reverse rotation split case 6 speed Subaru transmission in the Tesla without dropping the back seat. 
 

Thank goodness. That was the one thing keeping me from calling the local showroom.

Erich
Erich UberDork
7/10/21 7:48 a.m.

We are vacationing in Michigan's Upper Peninsula this week and I happened to see a Tesla model S drive past near Munising on the coast of Lake Superior. 

 The closest Superchargers are in Mackinaw City, south of the bridge, and Green Bay, Wisconsin. 

I'm kinda surprised there are no DC charge stations up here. 

​​

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/12/21 9:47 a.m.

That is a pretty sparsely served area for sure. But if you live there, you only need high speed charging where you're going :)

Took the Tesla on a Denver run this weekend. A few notes and observations:

- still a very comfortable road trip car.

- no destination charging at any available hotels, so I had to make a mid-trip stop at a Supercharger to be conservative. We rarely have less than 100 miles of range available, but we did get down to 60 or so on this trip. We could have done the charging on an IKEA visit (chargers are right beside it) but they were opening late and Janel was sleeping in so I took off and spent a pleasant 45 minutes reading a book as the car hummed away feasting on electrons. It wasn't really necessary as it turns out, although had we combined it with our IKEA visit there's a possibility I would have had to go move the car mid-visit when it was done charging. The main purpose was to give me more flexibility in our trip home, I wasn't sure where we'd want to stop so I wanted a bit of extra range on hand. 

- stopped to charge in Idaho Springs on the way home for a scheduled 15 minutes. Got out of the car and found a very cool little pedestrian mall main street with a little ice cream shop, so we sat in the sun and ate ice cream and hung out while the car fed.

- because there is very little regen available with a full battery, the car almost feels heavier. You have to use the friction brakes where you'd normally just lift off the accelerator. It's a funny illusion.

- found a weird behavior in the cruise control. If you set the cruise on a climb and then slowly take the pressure off the accelerator, the car will start to slow. I think it's because the cruise doesn't engage when there's any accelerator input, and a high speed climb means that you're decelerating if you have just a bit of pedal on. You have to just get off the pedal and let the car do what it needs to do. It doesn't seem to to this at any other time, just on initial engagement of the cruise. Sometime when Janel's not in the car I'll have to play with it more and see if I've figured out the cause and behavior accurately.

- the car reacted well to people doing odd things on multi-lane highways. Cars edging over to the lines as you're approaching them, like an upcoming unsignaled lane change or a texter/drunk wandering around their lane, the Tesla spotted it and pulled out of the throttle. It always did it just as I was about to take action myself. This was on the standard cruise control, no autosteer or self-driving or anything so the car only had throttle control. Pretty well judged behavior.

- we realized a while back that the battery management has evolved since we got the car. It used to make the occasional noise like a thump that was probably heat-related. It happened to Janel at about the same place every time she was driving home from the office. I checked, it was normal behavior. But one of the software updates changed that and the only time you ever hear a noise from the battery is if you're in the car while Supercharging.

- two of the Superchargers we stopped at were the V3 250 kW models. The car never pulled more than 150 kW from them, which was interesting. Also, with the battery set to use full capacity, you could really see how much slower the charge is as it gets near the top.

- I set the cruise to a couple of mph above the speed limit and found that the car was conservative on the range estimate. I arrived home with more range on tap than forecast. Previously, I've found that using the speed limit was pretty much bang on but that was on two-lanes instead of the interstate. I do have that trunk spoiler that's supposed to cut drag by a couple of percent, could it be making that much difference?

golfduke
golfduke Dork
7/12/21 11:21 a.m.

nice report.  Just for analysis, how long round trip was the journey? 

Thanks! 

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/12/21 12:53 p.m.

Roughly 600 miles. It's a trip we've done a few times in varying weather. Outside temps that I noticed ranged from 51F to 104F, welcome to the mountains :)

I didn't call it out specifically, but we did charge on the way to Denver when we stopped for dinner. Car was full before the food arrived.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/13/21 2:34 p.m.

The car's been getting a bit of a smell when the HVAC is turned on. Replacing the two cabin air filters has it all smelling pretty again. $27 well spent. The change was relatively easy, but I always work very carefully when I'm dealing with interior panels on a good car. The interior plastics are interesting, they're a bit flexible with almost a rubberized texture. The one screw involved in the swap is not all that easy to access, putting it at the bottom of the access door instead of the top would have made life easier. No scary manufacturing things were found inside.

Fun fact: Tesla recommends changing these filters every two years. Yearly in China. Which says a lot right there.

A friend just finished a cross-country blast in a Y. He did Rawlins WY to Santa Clara CA in 18 hours. 1058 miles in 18 hours is an average speed of 58mph including charging stops. Also, he traveled 8225 miles on the trip and used 2402 kWh. That's 292 Wh/mi. I don't know what his cruising speed was relative to the speed limit.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/13/21 2:57 p.m.

I spent some time on my last trip thinking about rabbits and hares. I used to tow in convoy with a coworker who would haul ass. He'd disappear off in the distance and I'd pass him when he was stopped for gas, then he'd go blasting past again. Over the course of the day, it ended up being pretty even because trailers really penalize you for drag. The same thing applies to EVs - the faster you go, the longer you spend stopped recharging. On a long, long trip with multiple charging stops, it would be an interesting thing to calculate.

I asked my friend what his strategy was over his cross country trip.

Depended on what I felt like. I used longer charging stops to take naps, shorter in NV where high speeds and strong headwinds and a sore back made me want to stop more often. Basically: driver comfort. But in general I would charge to destination +15% and then drive at a speed that the computer would claim I'd get there with 10%. Often came out as speed limit +2 or +5. Max speed was 82, that's fast enough on the road thanks.

Oh, one other thing for our last trip. We came across a Y that was towing. In order to use the Supercharger, he had to park across the row which blocked three extra chargers besides the one being used. The newer charging stations have one or two chargers that allow for a car to have a small trailer for this reason. Took me a while to realize why they were laid out the way they were.

APEowner
APEowner SuperDork
7/13/21 3:52 p.m.

One of the things that keeps coming up in this thread and others about pure electric vehicles is the topic of charge times and how they would effect how we travel.  The argument is usually something like.  An electric car wouldn't work for me because when I travel I stop for five minutes every six hours or 1,000 miles for fuel, food and a bathroom break.  The counter argument is that stops take longer than most people think and that since you don't have to fully charge at every stop it's really not a big deal.

My impression has always been that I'm one of those guys that would find that stopping to charge would be an issue for me so I kept track of my stops when I went to Dallas a while ago to pick up the Miata I bought from AnthonyGS.  I posted about that trip in this thread.

Here's the stats:

Total distance 658 Miles.  Total stop time 52 minutes

Stop 1: 206 miles, 22 minutes, Fuel, Snack, Bathroom , Walked around the car museum at Russel's travel center

Stop 2: 191 miles, 13 minutes, Lunch, bathroom

Stop 3: 90 miles, 8 minutes, Fuel

Stop 4: 168 miles, 9 minutes, bathroom

Some notes and observations. 

That last stop was 3 miles from Anthony's house and, if I had known Anthony better I could have just used his bathroom.

Using the Model 3 rating of 175 miles for every 15 minutes of charge time, leaving the last stop in the calculation and rounding my total stop time up eight minutes to a full hour I could have done this trip in an EV with only a very slight change in total stop time.  I would have had to make the stops at different times than I did, I don't think that there are Superchargers conveniently arranged on the route I took and no one yet makes an electric truck that'll pull my enclosed trailer but I found that interesting.

When I travel with my wife she prefers more stops at healthier intervals and assuming chargers on the route (and a trip that doesn't require a truck) I'm totally convinced that an EV would be perfectly convenient. 

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/13/21 4:08 p.m.

That's similar to my realization on my last Vegas trip. Here's Albequerque to Dallas in a Model 3 Long Range like mine (but newer and a bit more efficient). Looks like a total of 80 minutes of charge time.

It's really interesting to see the effect of the Long Range vs the Standard Range cars in that case - it doubles the stopped charging time. That's probably because the 3 SR needs to get very close to 100% of battery capacity to make it between stops, and charging rates fall off dramatically when you get above 80% because physics is harsh. The longest range Tesla S is the same as the 3 LR because they're both in their charging sweet spot and the S can't skip any of the stops. There's a lot you can unpack about that. A bigger battery can make up for a faster charging one, because it's more likely be charging efficiently.

nocones
nocones UberDork
7/13/21 4:19 p.m.

Have you ever ran into an issue where a charger isn't available? Meaning they are being used not that you miscalculated and literally couldn't find one.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/13/21 4:35 p.m.

I did, once. On an early road trip, we stopped to charge at Silverthorne. There were supposed to be 8 chargers and Tesla showed that 3 were available. When we got there, we found that two of the chargers were inop and one had an abandoned Model S (!) parked in front of it. So that's about 37% of the available chargers out of service. We waited 45 minutes to get access, IIRC. Had all the chargers been operational, I don't think there would have been a wait.

Silverthorne is where all the Denver Teslas would be recharging on their way to/from the mountains so it's quite high traffic and it's a town I don't enjoy at the best of times.

Since then, there's been another cluster of 12 V3 (faster than the old V2) chargers built in Silverthorne as well as a second cluster of 8 V3 just down the road in Idaho Springs. So on that day there were 5 chargers in the area, today there are 28 and most of them are faster. That's just the Tesla network, I don't know about EA and others.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
7/13/21 4:48 p.m.
APEowner said:

One of the things that keeps coming up in this thread and others about pure electric vehicles is the topic of charge times and how they would effect how we travel.  The argument is usually something like.  An electric car wouldn't work for me because when I travel I stop for five minutes every six hours or 1,000 miles for fuel, food and a bathroom break.  The counter argument is that stops take longer than most people think and that since you don't have to fully charge at every stop it's really not a big deal.

My impression has always been that I'm one of those guys that would find that stopping to charge would be an issue for me so I kept track of my stops when I went to Dallas a while ago to pick up the Miata I bought from AnthonyGS.  I posted about that trip in this thread.

Here's the stats:

Total distance 658 Miles.  Total stop time 52 minutes

Stop 1: 206 miles, 22 minutes, Fuel, Snack, Bathroom , Walked around the car museum at Russel's travel center

Stop 2: 191 miles, 13 minutes, Lunch, bathroom

Stop 3: 90 miles, 8 minutes, Fuel

Stop 4: 168 miles, 9 minutes, bathroom

Some notes and observations. 

That last stop was 3 miles from Anthony's house and, if I had known Anthony better I could have just used his bathroom.

Using the Model 3 rating of 175 miles for every 15 minutes of charge time, leaving the last stop in the calculation and rounding my total stop time up eight minutes to a full hour I could have done this trip in an EV with only a very slight change in total stop time.  I would have had to make the stops at different times than I did, I don't think that there are Superchargers conveniently arranged on the route I took and no one yet makes an electric truck that'll pull my enclosed trailer but I found that interesting.

When I travel with my wife she prefers more stops at healthier intervals and assuming chargers on the route (and a trip that doesn't require a truck) I'm totally convinced that an EV would be perfectly convenient. 

 

Well said.   I may push for 4+ hours simply because I have for so much of my life. But every stop takes me a while to fill the tank, then I go empty my bladder and or bowels.  Followed by a few minutes to reload food, snacks, drinks, and at least twice a day a hot sit down meal. 
    I think with an EV it might be faster since when I travel a 45 minute nap gets me almost 20+ hours of nonstop driving.

 My wife changes that to a stop no more than 2 hours.  A motel for the night at 10-12 hours if I'm willing to put up with complaints for a couple of hours. And the next morning and much of the next day. 

    

84FSP
84FSP UltraDork
7/13/21 7:40 p.m.

I'm growing more comfortable with roadtripping mine.  We made a nice 250 mile round trip to a friend's wedding Friday and my hotel that PlugShare said had service did not.  

We still were in good shape on range but this was Mrs84FSP's maiden drive and maiden road trip and she has range anxiety.  We hit the supercharger and snagged 100miles of charge in 15min for $4.35 at station by a Target.  She happily snagged us some road trip breakfast and we were ready a few minutes after she got back to the car.

She bonded with the car proclaiming she liked it "more than my other cars".  Doubtful that she'll want to drive it but at least she didn't hate it.  She was highly amused by Santa mode and the option to have the car make jingle bell noises, in July...

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/13/21 8:57 p.m.

Hotels.com lets you use charger availability as a filter when searching for hotels, FYI. Since that information is provided by the hotel and not some random contributor it should be pretty reliable.

Janel has really bonded with hers. Apparently the reason I wasn't allowed to sell her Jeep is because she thought she wouldn't like the EV and it would be my car. She very much does like the EV so I don't get it for myself AND we still have the dumb Jeep. 

mattm
mattm Reader
7/14/21 11:39 p.m.

In reply to 84FSP :

Since we are both live and travel in similar areas, what was that hotel?  Also, remember that the Tesla navigation can show you destination chargers and other level 2 chargers as well as superchargers.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/15/21 12:11 a.m.

I thought the Tesla onboard nav only shows destination chargers you have visited before? I know the website shows all public Tesla chargers. 

Woody (Forum Supportum)
Woody (Forum Supportum) MegaDork
7/15/21 3:37 a.m.

You have mentioned IKEA/restaurant/hotel chargers...

Are these available only during business hours, or are they available 24/7/365?

Are the hotel chargers available exclusively to registered guests?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/15/21 8:53 a.m.

That varies.

The Supercharger network is 24/7. It's owned by Tesla. That happens to be what's near the IKEA we were visiting, although they also have some more universal chargers in their parking lot as well.

The "destination chargers" are slower, similar to what you can install at home, and owned by individual businesses or organizations. Access to those is determined by the owner of the charger. Some are only for guests of a hotel. Some are for anyone. 

It's kind of like wifi, some businesses keep it as a perk for their customers and some just open it to everyone. For the Tesla destination chargers, you can find the access rules by looking at the Tesla map, where it will say things like "available to the public" or "for guests only, please see front desk". I'm not sure if limited access is actually enforced or if it's kinda like how use of a hotel parking lot isn't for the general public but the hotels don't really monitor.

The same goes for non-Tesla networks. I've seen some chargers in parking garages or with limited time access. Sites like Plugshare are the best way to get the details on those although being user-generated content means there is some possibility for error.

Huh, the biggest group of destination chargers I can find in the Denver area is at a parking provider for the airport that has 40 of them. You have to see the valet. Which is a pretty interesting idea - the lot can charge your car for you while you're away, and using valets means they can shuffle cars so they don't need a 1:1 charger/car ratio. Or at least that's a theory, looking at their website they simply offer free EV charging on a first-come, first-serve basis. But you COULD offer this sort of service, and maybe we'll see it in the future. They also offer auto detailing services so this is a valued-added airport parking lot :)

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
7/15/21 9:15 a.m.

FYI I've put 33k miles on my Bolt over 21 months. I've never washed it, but the body shop probably did when they had it after my accident. 

 

Anyway here is the brake situation. Pristine. 

 

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