Road Race / AutoX Project 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle

9/20/21

I swapped the Step-up piston springs for the metering rods in the Edelbrock 500 Carb from 4" hg to 3"hg - It really needs 3.5"hg Springs but I don't think Edelbrock makes such a part, or a metering rods with 3 stepped areas - I dont think those are available any more either.

With these springs it's a bit too lean at moments on the throttle, but does not get into the 12's / 11's AFR in 4th / 5th gear on the highway when pulling a small to moderate grade. With the 4" hg springs it was wasting fuel in this area... Carbs can only do so much with their notchy tuning abilities I guess. For my next trip to a 24 Hours of Lemons Race in Kentucky, I will set it up for good MPG's instead of all out throttle mashing fun.

I also Was invited to the season wrap up meeting for the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix organizers..
It was on the North end of Pittsburgh, about ~ 40 from me.
Parking was for "fun cars" and boring cars.  I parked with the fun cars.  Was a fun trip and got to meet a bunch of new car guys and gals that help to put the 10 days of racing and charity events together. Also found more wonderfully curvy roads / hill climbs around the Pittsburgh area. -

Greg

9/24/21

Will Be taking Grüne Hölle on a ~1000 mile round trip to the 24 hours of lemons race in Bowling Green KY at NCM Motorsports park.

Should be a blast - I am on the crew with some other like minded slant 6 racers.

I wonder if it's possible to machine an extra step on a metering rod with a micro-lathe?

Of course, realizing I was about to go even further down that rabbit hole (I wanted a metering rod that could move in with vacuum and out under boost) was what led to my going EFI... 

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

It is. I've customized many Q-Jet metering rods on the lathe before.

asphalt_gundam said:

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

It is. I've customized many Q-Jet metering rods on the lathe before.

I need to do that .. or Megasquirt... we'll see how long the carb lives on the manifold...

Greg

9/28/21

I had another fun weekend driving the Grüne Hölle Dart over 1000 Miles round trip. It went off with out any problems - I could not even detect that it needed any oil after ~500 Miles of driving - (haven't checked it since returning home)

My route took me on all interstates to get there. - About 500 Miles in 8 or so hours each way.  The car sang along at 2800 RPM netting 84 MPH with the 3.91 Gears out back. I did not know about the Cincinnati Bypass and Got stuck in terrible Rush Hour Traffic whilst trying to navigate south on I75.

After making it through the urban centers and construction zones with accidents, I ended in Bowling Green KY; NCM Motorsports Park =to crew with the the [b][u]Off Kilter Racing Team [/u][/b]- We are like minded Slant 6 Junkies that campaign a 1962 Valiant in the 24 hours of Lemons Series named Toad Racer.

Got an early start on Friday at the work campus - Love the clear morning walks at sunrise.

Paddock buddies:

Carb Tuning:

It might Not Look Like Much Be we turned the fastest laps in C class  - Faster than the Class Winner, "Duff Beer"

Started out Racing in the Rain:

Wore out some Tires..

Found some corvettes..

Sunday Paddock:

Took a bit less interstates on the way back home:

'till next time,
Greg

Here is an action Shot from the Summer PVGP Countryside Tour back in July 2021:

I was a group leader and the White Porsche was bringing up the rear.. Fun times!

Greg

11/10/21

Did some fiddly Stuff on the car after returning from the Ohio Excursion.

Found that the Header collector bolts were loose, so I replaced them with longer bolts that permitted the use of lock washers and I also put nylocs on there too.. Maybe the nylon will burn off but It's better tan having the header bolts come loose when I am on the road.

Also Refreshed and cleaned the pins on the back of the gauge cluster and cleaned the grounds real good. All of the vibrations made the instrument cluster lights, turn signals and hi beam indicator  work sporadically..

Drove the car to work Monday nite... it all was good.

Now ready for some serious winter fabrication when time and $ allows.

Greg

Cool, what are you planning on fabbing up?

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

Well fabbing might not be the proper vocab...

I have a fiberglass hood. Its super light. It will need painted and mounted to lightweight AL hinges with pins for full removal.

I want to put in a proper harness bar.. '64 darts do not have shoulder belt mount points. The harness bar.. I want it to be removable so that My daughter can ride in the back seat without a bar in her face. I would weld in abutments to the area near / above the rear armrests. Hopefully with the proper safety restraints I can take it to a proper track day / HDPE / TNiA.

I Bought a fitech 4 bbl. Used..not a fan of the fitech control interface.. so plop the fitech on the manifold and control it with ms3, and of course add all the proper fueling supports , lines, electric and wiring for the TBFI conversion.

Greg

slantsix said:

11/10/21

....

Found that the Header collector bolts were loose, so I replaced them with longer bolts that permitted the use of lock washers and I also put nylocs on there too.. Maybe the nylon will burn off but It's better tan having the header bolts come loose when I am on the road.

.....

Greg

May want to consider deformed thread prevailing torque nuts (commonly known as jet nuts in the area I live); also- a thick hardened flat washer like an ARP washer ILO lockwasher.

NASA Reference Publication 1228 (1990) “Fastener Design Manual”

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19900009424/downloads/19900009424.pdf indicates that split ring lockwashers are a misplaced hope that a fastener will remain tight

May also want to look at chemical assists for fasteners like loctite

In reply to twentyover :

Thanks, for the info I will look into those.

I have used the deformed locknuts in the past with success.  I did not use the split ring lock washers, on this project but the serrated star type... nit sure if that was the proper move here.  I was also looking into the nord locks, but another buddy simply suggested double nutting the collector bolts  / nuts which is a simple, easy solution too.

Greg

I would think the split lock washers would be more appropriate here?  Double nutting probably also works if you can handle the cosmetic aspects of such an installation method.

Curious how the FiTech works out with MS3 control.  Why MS3 and not MS2?  I've wondered how well Megasquirt could fix issues with FiTechs but I've no direct experience so will be watching how this goes for you.  What's your plan for an intake manifold?  

   You might consider a V-band clamp instead of the 3 bolt flange.   Little more work to install but might end up working better.

In reply to TED_fiestaHP :

Yes! I bought those when I did the exhaust build.  Since I already had The Clifford Shorties and they were already ceramic coated, I decided against using the V bands at the end of the shorty headers.. I did not want to deal with welding stainless to mild and also getting the headers re coated.

Thanks for the Ideas!

Greg

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Curious how the FiTech works out with MS3 control.  Why MS3 and not MS2?  I've wondered how well Megasquirt could fix issues with FiTechs but I've no direct experience so will be watching how this goes for you.  What's your plan for an intake manifold?  

Yes I am curious as well.

I see no reason all of the IAC, IAT and Vacuum/Manifold Pressure that is built into the FITech cannot interface with the MS3. If I were adding MS3 to any other slant 6 I would need or want those to monitor and run the engine.

Toss in a Fuel pump, Crank / Cam Triggers  coolant sensor and then have the MS3 control the Timing / Fueling of the injectors in the FiTech Throttle Body. I will check / test for faulty sensors / injectors and replace as needed.

My choice to go MS3 is a multifacted one - I already have one (MS3)and like it alot.  MS2 could work but I want to have access to all the bells and whistles offered with the MS3 for when I go to full ITB's with sequential port injection later down the road, along with possibilities like integrated laucnch control / 2 step, Flat shift, boost control ( if I decide to turbo or torqstorm supercharge it).  I dont want to have to pull out the MS2 then upgrade to MS3.

I already have a 4 barrel manifold on this engine - being fed by the edelbrock AFB 500 Carby.  I don't foresee too much fuss to swap on the FiTech in place of the Edelbrock.20210604_214359 by Hyperpack, on Flickr

Greg

In reply to slantsix :

   After the first time I used a V-band clamp, don't think I will ever use anything else.    The 3 bolt flanges on my Maserati Bi-turbo were just about impossible to deal with.  The V-band was much easier, but setting it up was extra effort.....

12/16/21

Have been slowly working on some small bits.
I removed the Headlight Switch / Wiper Switch Dash Bezel..I made a Proper Tool to get the wiper and headlight Switch Lock nuts off. I painted the Dash Bezel a year or 2 back and it originally looked like this piece too.

It is kind of a cool and somewhat more scarce piece as most '63-'64 darts that I have seen (especially GT's) Had the pushbutton with the buttons and Park lever where this big gray Block off plate is.

Before:

All that groovy '60's Chrysler chromed plastic was faded away into a smokey yellow hue that just looks dated and old.

So like many other bits inside and out on the car - Satin black to the rescue!

It's not perfect, but I am the one who will see it the most and I can live with it.

'Till next time!

Greg

Looks great!

1/9/21
Here is a blast form the Past.

Found this Picture from the Day I Picked up the car from my dear friend's house in NC... He Gracisouly Picked up and Hauled the Dart to his house from Southern Georgia and Stored if for a few months for me. 
It was an October hurricane weekend, and There was rain all day.. But this is how  the Grüne Hölle project started life with me... getting towed up the mountain on the open trailer with 'Ol Blue.

I have Plans to work on and upgrade the car this winter but have been getting sidetracked by other small projects and "deals".  
I did get the Painted Wiper/Washer and Headlight Switch bezel plate installed.

Hope to get back to it soon.

That picture is awesome. People must have been going crazy when they saw that. People probably wore out their hands giving thumbs up going down the road!

NY Nick said:

That picture is awesome. People must have been going crazy when they saw that. People probably wore out their hands giving thumbs up going down the road!

Only if people on the road appreciated vehicles like that such as you and I do.  

Well here are some other "trailer Pics"

Pars car for the Grüne Hölle.... 

Not a parts car.. Just fueling my old MoPar addiction..

I usually get more Thums up or what's that at the Gas Pump or other parking lots if I stop.

People need to respect the classics!

I had a 65 Dart that I converted to run on natural gas and then sold it to make room for a Camaro (like a silly college student, which I was at the time). I am jinxing for another one thanks to your car and the turbo project by mad scientist. I recently sold my Trackster to make space and $ so we will see what happens. There is a '66 local to me that the person tried to sell a few years ago with no luck. It's been sitting under a tarp in his driveway since. Trying to get things where they need to be for me to go make an offer and be serious. 

In reply to NY Nick :

Good luck with getting your next project,

Glad that Matt and I helped to Motivate you!

Thanks, I was inspired enough to pull out a photo album and grab a couple pics this morning. I got this car when I was 16 (I thought I was a genius but wasn't). I did the natural gas conversion for a high school science fair project with a lot of help from some great mentors in my life. It worked really well, this is the car I regret selling the most.