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Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) MegaDork
4/9/22 1:19 p.m.
Toyman! said:

(electric thruster)

That is a creative solution! You can also claim, tongue in cheek, that you've got an EV.

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
4/9/22 2:39 p.m.

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :

Or at least a hybrid. 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
4/9/22 8:43 p.m.

We've already established that I've never owned a single engine inboard boat, but I've spent some hours on a few. Don't they all back straight and to one side (only) just fine? Your electric auxiliary (cool idea, BTW) could give you the ability to back in both directions. 

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
4/9/22 9:37 p.m.

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

From my limited time spent operating it the rudder is pretty much useless in reverse at idle speed. Prop walk will make it turn some, but not a lot. Hopefully the stern thruster will allow me to push the stern off the dock and back away without dragging the side of the hull down the dock. 

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
4/10/22 6:09 p.m.

Well, I screwed up in ordering my wire. The multi-conductor I ordered for the engine and sensor wiring was 20 gauge. While probably large enough for the sensors, it's too small for the ignition and such. I also question its durability in a marine environment. I have reordered 8 spools of tinned copper in assorted colors. I also didn't order any wire to wire the dash power, lights, and grounds or any wire to wire the switch panel. So scratch the wiring for this weekend.  

I did get the last gauge mounted. It's not identical to the others but it's close enough. 

20220410_123030.jpg

I also replaced old switch plate with a new one and covered the gaping hole in the dash where some knuckle head had installed a head unit. The dash is pretty much done for now. 

20220410_134732.jpg

20220410_140343.jpg

 

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
5/2/22 11:01 a.m.

Slow progress is better than no progress. 

80% of the wiring is done. The engine side of wiring is complete. All the sending units are wired as well as the coil, choke, start solenoid, alternator, and main circuit breaker. 

The instrument panel is wired. A 12-circuit stainless marine fuse panel is installed. Wire runs for the 3 bilge pumps and the bilge blower are run and all the grounds are labeled and terminated. I still need to tie in the positive legs to the switches and tie the switches into the fuse panel. I also decided to order a new ignition switch that still needs to be installed and wired. It should take me about an hour to get it done. Working under the dash isn't the most comfortable place to be.

The only other wiring to be done will be the bow, stern, and anchor light. I'm not going to worry about them until after I get the engine running. 

No pictures were taken, I will get an after shot when I am done. 

 

 

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
5/15/22 7:19 p.m.

The engine wiring is done. 100% I won't call it perfect but it's damn sure good enough for me. As a plus everything is labeled as to where is goes so troubleshooting won't be a problem in the future. 

20220514_153410.jpg

That was yesterday. Today was start the engine day. At least that was the plan when I walked out to the shop this morning. 

First step was fluids. Engine oil, transmission oil, and coolant were filled. The next step was priming the oil pump. That required dropping the oil pump drive shaft and spending an hour trying to fish it back out. Finally got it where it belongs. Spun the pump and it almost immediately made 80 pounds of oil pressure.

Next up was installing the distributor. Since I've never actually done that before it took several tries to get the gear, the oil pump shaft, and the distributor aligned where they needed to be. We finally got that done, made a final check of everything, and hit the key to see if it would turn over. 

The starter spun, but it didn't actually turn the engine. It sounded like the Bendix was throwing properly but the gear wasn't engage the flywheel. I went through everything. I checked the voltage, checked to make sure I didn't end up with a reverse rotation starter, and everything else I could think of to avoid pulling the starter.  No luck, the starter had to come back out.

Unfortunately, step one for pulling the starter is pulling the engine. There is zero room around the engine to get an arm under it to pull a bolt, much less get the starter out. Luckily, pulling the engine consists of removing the 4 bolts at the shaft coupler, pulling the exhaust hoses off the manifolds, and removing the 8 lags that hold the engine mounts to the engine bed. An hour later we had the starter pulled, and checked over. Some knucklehead apparently didn't install both bolts when the starter was mounted the first time. We got the starter reinstalled with both bolts and checked to make sure it was working while the engine was still hanging from the gantry. Then drop the engine, put all the bolts and lags back, and done. 

20220515_155140.jpg

Once all of that was back together, it was time to flush to fuel lines, hook up the fuel pump, hook up the flush hose, and see if she would fire off. 

The answer to that was, no.

No spark. sad

Apparently, the distributor I order was not what I thought it was. This one requires an ignition box to operate. I assumed it was a knockoff of a Pertronics. When I pulled the cap off, it had obviously smoked the ignitor. My choices were to repair this one and install an ignition controller or order a Pertronics distributor. I chose option B because of fewer electronics, it will be here Wednesday. 

So, progress, but not as much as I wanted. 

Until next time...

 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
5/15/22 11:52 p.m.

Oww... How frustrating.

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
5/16/22 7:49 a.m.

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

It was not the best day I've ever had in the shop.

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
5/16/22 10:05 a.m.

I know you didn't make all the progress you hoped to make, but I'm still impressed by how far you made it and how quickly. The wiring looks great! You'll get it going soon, I'm sure.

Seeing how easy it is to pull the motor made me regret passing on an excellent deal on an I/O drive boat with a cracked block. (Cracked from improper winterization.)

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
5/16/22 10:36 a.m.

In reply to dculberson :

I/Os aren't quite as easy as inboards. To remove the engine, you have to pull the bell housing bolts and they are frequently buried under a sun deck or the transom cap. That can make them a royal PITA to get to. 

This inboard is easier than most. The engine isn't completely under the deck and the entire center of the deck is removable giving easy access to the driveline from the front of the engine to the shaft seal. It's one of the reasons I wanted a 20' Shamrock. When I'm 70, I'll still be able to work on it without standing on my head or crawling around under the deck. 

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
5/17/22 4:37 p.m.

Very good progress and happy to see it.  The setbacks suck but oh well ;)

You have my interest piqued with your wiring labels.  Are they pre-made ones that you buy or do you have some sort of label maker for shrink tube (or other tubular labels)?

Anyway...this thing is ready for a decades of fun by the time you get this work done and get it on the water!

Looking forward to a post with water and V8 rumbly goodness ;)

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
5/17/22 7:21 p.m.

In reply to ClemSparks :

This guy is the thing for labeling wires. It will print on several different sizes of shrink tube, from 3/16 up to about 3/4 or so, as well as printing regular lables. 

Amazon.com: Brady BMP21-PLUS Handheld Label Printer with Rubber Bumpers,  Multi-Line Print, 6 to 40 Point Font : Office Products

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
5/17/22 7:38 p.m.

It's worth noting, I think, that Toyman does a lot more wiring than most of us. Wiring that he makes maintainable by "the next guy." Hence the skillzzzz

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
5/18/22 9:22 a.m.

In reply to dculberson :

Not as much lately, I'm nailed to a desk these days. Most of our stuff is color-coded with very good wiring diagrams. 

One of the early projects in my electrical career was on a termination team for a power plant. The first completely computer-controlled plant in the state. There were 5 of us that landed every wire in the building. From #22 shielded sensor wires to 500MCM cable. I spent months with my head buried in electrical cabinets with a small screwdriver, a wire stripper, and a set of plans, labeling and landing wires. This was before the days of label makers and I bet I went through a dozen iDeal labeling booklets and countless ty-raps. All in I spent almost 2 years on that job labeling and landing wires in either control cabinets or motor control centers. If you have OCD it makes for a fun job. I used to be able to trim out a cabinet and make it a work of art. Not so much anymore, my OCD must be going away as I get older. 

 

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
5/18/22 2:00 p.m.

That's cool info on the label maker...thanks!

Not sure if I'll get one but it would be cool to have.  That might go on a Christmas list (I guess I better start being more nice/less naughty) or I might pick one up if I decide to do any major wiring projects.

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
5/21/22 3:17 p.m.

It's lives!!!

It only took me two years to get it back together. 

 

I think it has an exhaust leak at the port manifold. I'll put a gasket in it this week. 

 

Most of the gauges are not reading correctly. The oil pressure is 80 psi, The voltage is over 16 without the engine running, the tach is pegged at 7500 even with the engine off, and the water temp starts at 140 with the engine cold. I'm guessing it's a grounding issue. I may need a dedicated ground from the engine to the dash. 

smokeysevin
smokeysevin New Reader
5/21/22 4:29 p.m.

When you say the voltage is over 16, did you confirm that the gauge is actually incorrect with a standalone voltmeter?

Marine electronics have always proven to be SUPER sensitive to grounding in general and ground loops in particular. On sensors that are body grounded like pressure sensors and single wire temp sensors, I like to use hose clamps to attach the ground wire for that sensor directly to the body of the sensor rather than relying on thread contact etc.

Ground loops may not be the issue in this case but they play hell with audio systems if you get to that point. Generally, I try to do home runs with anything all the way back to the battery where they are connected to a single terminal block. You have to upsize wire for everything since your lengths are effectively doubled which also costs more since you have to buy basically double the amount but it saves a lot of heartache later.

I also really recommend using tinned copper wire and NON-Insulated terminals then using adhesive lined heat shrink over the top of the ends. It just leaves less chance for water to get caught in the voids. 

You can also pickup stray RF or current issues from the ignition system since a lot of them are not shielded or don't run resistor type plugs that are common in automotive applications. 

The other thing I learned the hard way is DON'T use thread tape on oil/water lines especially where you are running a pressure sensor. I had an oil AND a fuel pressure sensor get blocked by a stray piece of thread tape and give high readings at key-on. I exclusively use thread sealant on anything automotive now.

Sean

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
5/24/22 12:13 p.m.

In reply to Toyman! :

That sounds glorious and looks great!

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
5/31/22 11:08 a.m.

The Shamrock spent 2 days overboard this weekend. The total run time was about 4.5 hours. The engine runs well. I need to change either the jets or the cam for the accelerator pump. It stumbles badly under acceleration. I need to change the port side exhaust manifold gasket. Other than that, it was mechanically perfect. 

There were no oil or coolant leaks. No water leaks in the raw water system. No fuel leaks. I will call that one a win.

The gauges misbehaved all weekend. No tach. The temp gauge was reading about 40 degrees high. The voltage is still reading high. I will have to dig into that this week. 

I didn't do a WOT top-speed run, but it cruises nicely at around 25 mph at what sounds like 2500-3000 RPM. More throttle didn't seem to translate to more speed, just more noise. I knew this wasn't going to be a speed demon when I bought it. 

It will be getting mufflers. While I like the sound of an uncorked V8 as much as anyone, listening to it for hours on end does get old. 

Unfortunately, no pictures were taken nor videos made, so you will have to take my word for it. 

Now that the majority of the mechanical work is done, you will start to see some cosmetic work happening. 

 

More to come. 

This is the only picture I took all weekend. The first time it has left the yard in almost 2 years. I should be ashamed about that, but I'm not. 

20220528_081935_HDR.jpg

 

 

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
5/31/22 11:35 a.m.

In reply to Toyman! :

That's awesome. Glad you got some time on it, that always makes a project feel more worthwhile. I agree on the mufflers, and think 2 years is a blip in the major project time frame.

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
6/22/22 9:04 p.m.

Finally made the time to figure out the temperature sensor and tach.

The temp sensor I installed when I assembled the engine wasn't compatible with the gauge. I got that swapped out and the temps run a steady 185 on the flush hose. 

I also figured out the tach problem. After going back through the wiring in it, it turned out the selector switch on the back of the tach was 180 degrees out. 

It will hit the water again this Saturday for the weekend so I can put more hours on it. 

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
6/24/22 7:52 a.m.

Last week I replaced the 12 year old trailer tires with a new set. While it was apart I found a broken spring on the front axle. Yesterday I I got the trailer up in the air and replaced the spring. I was kind of surprised how easy it all came apart after a semifrequent dousing in saltwater. 

That done I installed and wired the control switches for the trim tabs. While testing, the system had a line failure and pumped all the hydraulic oil into the bilge. That was super fun to clean up. frown

I also retorqued the exhaust manifold in hopes of stopping the leak. Yes, I knew it wouldn't work but it never hurts to try.  

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
6/27/22 7:55 a.m.

I put another couple of hours on the engine this weekend. Still runs pretty well. I even shot a short video. This is turning about 2900 RPMs and running about 25 mph. She seems to be pretty happy at this speed. 

 

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
7/4/22 1:00 p.m.

Just pulled her back out of the water. She ran flawlessly all weekend. 

 

Now it's time to start making her look nicer.

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