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sevenracer
sevenracer New Reader
2/12/10 9:55 a.m.

I'm shopping for a new DD, and I'm really digging the 4 door GTI, 6 spd manual.

One of the main goals of spending new car money is to have a practical car that requires very little time investment.

I've seen all the comments here on abysmal VW reliability. What's the general opinion on their latest stuff? Better? Worse? No change?

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
2/12/10 10:00 a.m.

Better reliability. I think they're catching up to their complicated eletrics. Nice cars—I took a few laps at VIR in one. It was a lot of fun to fling around--yet still very practical.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
2/12/10 10:13 a.m.

I can't afford the maintenance. If you buy a DSG car the 40K mile service will be about $700.00 total. again at 80K and by then you will need a clutch for your automatic transmission...

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer SuperDork
2/12/10 10:23 a.m.

VW has put a 128 bit encrypted block on the ECUs for the 2010 2.0Ts, so nobody can flash them. APR can crack the ECU open and manually flash them by jumping off some pins, but VW is gonna see the ECU has been altered and is gonna strat voiding warranties...

angusmf
angusmf New Reader
2/12/10 10:27 a.m.
Per Schroeder wrote: Better reliability.

I hear that every time a new model comes out. They must be the most reliable cars in the world by now.

speedblind
speedblind Reader
2/12/10 10:31 a.m.
John Brown wrote: I can't afford the maintenance. If you buy a DSG car the 40K mile service will be about $700.00 total. again at 80K and by then you will need a clutch for your automatic transmission...

The maintenance is free for the first three years.

He's also looking at a 6-spd. manual, so the DSG maintenance costs aren't an issue.

I have an 09 with MT and I love the car. It's handled the DC snow very well and has all the utility you'd expect from a hatchback. Will be getting a 2010 in a couple months - 4 dr./DSG. The 2010 cars are significantly better than the 09 in terms of interior, suspension, and things like iPod integration and Bluetooth.

In the interest of full disclosure, I work for VW, so I'm a bit biased. My recommendation would be to drive one and see what you think.

speedblind
speedblind Reader
2/12/10 10:34 a.m.

One more bit of propaganda. ABC news report about stuck throttle - VWs use a Bosch system that most German manufacturers also use. Not sure about other companies.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8980024

pinchvalve
pinchvalve SuperDork
2/12/10 10:48 a.m.

The new "R" model is worth waiting for. Haldex AWD + 240hp + 4 Doors + roomy hatchback + manual or DSG = perfect all around car?

skruffy
skruffy Dork
2/12/10 10:53 a.m.

The DSG service is only expensive if you pay the dealer to do it. It's just a fluid and filter change. Even then, if you're bitching about needing a $700 service once every 5 years or so, maybe you shouldn't buy a $27k, complex, turbocharged, german car. Luckily all the other car manufacturers don't have any scheduled maintenance that needs to be done at all, and anything that breaks is fixed for free for ever and ever until the end of time. I bet you just go out of your mind when you have to buy tires. I mean, they should just last forever, right? Nothing should ever need serviced, EVER. And when it does it should be free and the dealer should buy you a beer and a hooker for putting you through such a horrible ordeal.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Marketing / Club Coordinator
2/12/10 11:12 a.m.
pinchvalve wrote: The new "R" model is worth waiting for. Haldex AWD + 240hp + 4 Doors + roomy hatchback + manual or DSG = perfect all around car?

Subaru > VW at AWD hatchbacks, IMHO. If I were into the DSG thing, I might be more interested in a Vee Dub.

angusmf
angusmf New Reader
2/12/10 11:18 a.m.

Wow, guys. Ease up on JB. He's just providing some valuable information. And I think he means total service, not just on the DSG itself.

Subaru hatches are straight up ugly. At least that last WRX was. Not saying that's a reason to buy the VW, but different people want different things.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
2/12/10 11:53 a.m.
speedblind wrote:
John Brown wrote: I can't afford the maintenance. If you buy a DSG car the 40K mile service will be about $700.00 total. again at 80K and by then you will need a clutch for your automatic transmission...
The maintenance is free for the first three years. He's also looking at a 6-spd. manual, so the DSG maintenance costs aren't an issue. I have an 09 with MT and I love the car. It's handled the DC snow very well and has all the utility you'd expect from a hatchback. Will be getting a 2010 in a couple months - 4 dr./DSG. The 2010 cars are significantly better than the 09 in terms of interior, suspension, and things like iPod integration and Bluetooth. In the interest of full disclosure, I work for VW, so I'm a bit biased. My recommendation would be to drive one and see what you think.

I don't work for VW, but I work for a VW dealership. I really love MOST of the product line that VW has today, and what I don't like is being replaced or updated very soon.

Yes the first three years/36,000 miles of services are free and that saves the owner over $1,000 in services by the book. I am only stating the comparative cost of ownership and required maintenance that will be required if someone buys the car. I also have stated, many times, that even though I work at a dealership I could not afford to maintain a new VW through 100,000 miles.

And Skruffy, if you want that extended warranty for that DSG transmission beyond 36,000 miles... you want the dealer to do that DSG service. And it's not $700.00 every five years or so.

A ( new ) B008B010000 Service - 10,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $0

B ( new ) B008B020000 Service - 20,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $0

C ( new ) B008B030000 Service - 30,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $0

D ( new ) B008B040000 Service - 40,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $652.81

E ( new ) B008B050000 Service - 50,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $181.48

F ( new ) B008B060000 Service - 60,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $253.64

G ( new ) B008B070000 Service - 70,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $321.32

H ( new ) B008B080000 Service - 80,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $652.81

I ( new ) B008B090000 Service - 90,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $181.48

J ( new ) B008B100000 Service - 100,000 Miles 2.0L (CBF,CCT) w/ DSG w/ standard dust filter $253.64

skruffy
skruffy Dork
2/12/10 12:28 p.m.

So, roughly $2,500 in scheduled maintenance over 100k miles is more than you could possibly afford? If must be rough working for VW.

sevenracer
sevenracer New Reader
2/12/10 12:32 p.m.

So more info on my situation:

No DSG for me. I'm too risk averse for that based on problems I've read about, plus I have driven a couple and had a couple of things I didn't like about it - like starting quickly from rest, and some reluctance to shift gears when asked under certain situations.

I have cross shopped the usual suspects - GTI, WRX, Mazdaspeed3, and used BMW 330i's (E90), but the GTI scores better in fuel mileage and creature comforts (important for my wife), plus to me, the interior is great.

Is the GTI-R officially coming to the US? Probably doesn't matter too much, since I don't really want to wait, and the price point will probably be too high for me to consider. I suspect the gas mileage will suffer as well with the Hi-Po motor and AWD.

GTwannaB
GTwannaB New Reader
2/12/10 12:34 p.m.

Why buy new? I see 2007 GTIs going for $14-15K. Sure it is redesigned, blah, blah, blah. I look at the 2010 and see a 2007 GTI with a nanny psuedo lsd brake system that is just going hamper the driving experience.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
2/12/10 1:08 p.m.

The six manual is a lovely piece. I have had two failures in shop and both were likely related to the kids learning to drive stick for the first time while drag racing across East Lansing.

The fit, finish, driving experience and the whole package is pretty good. At $28K is it twice the car my $13K Cobalt was? Yes, and most of you remember how I liked my Cobalt.

And Skruffy, with all the people getting layed off in the automotive service industry it IS very hard to make a living as a service writer. But it's okay, pretty soon they will outsource those jobs to India as well and I can be your problem The wages for people in my industry have tanked, but I am still employed so I am not complaining. What was an industry that you could make upwards of 50-80K/yr is now an industry where you make 25-45k/yr. Closer dealer profits, the DIY push and a lean economy have reduced my paycheck by 25%. Working against bonus goals that were unreachable in a community that is petrified to spend money is pretty scary. I am getting a raise this month but it will not replace the drop in pay over the last two years.

sevenracer
sevenracer New Reader
2/12/10 2:36 p.m.

Why buy new? - It's a VW, I want the warranty - have heard the original 2.0T FSI has issues (like oil consumption) that were cured in the updated TFSI...not sure if this is fact or not - Interior and electronics pkg really is much nicer in the new one - Really prefer the new sheetmetal - finding a used one with the right options not too easy (4dr, 6MT, sunroof, heated seats, but no leather) - I didn't realize the pseudo LSD was new for 2010

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
2/12/10 2:44 p.m.

Another option is looking at the CPO cars. We have seen a 2010 TDi wagon with 9300 miles on it come through on CPO so the GTis will start soon too.

The nice thing about a 10K mile CPO car is the bigger warranty tacked onto the car.

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 Reader
2/12/10 2:50 p.m.

The GTI is a great looking car and I'm sure a blast to drive. However, the Mazda 3 or Mazdaspeed 3 provides similar form and function at a lower cost and w/o the required German maintenance and risks associated with German engineering. The Subie WRX is also a great contender in that price range. Similar form and functionality but has AWD and Japanese reliability.

For a DD, I prefer a car that doesn't have the risk of routine dealer visits regardless of whether its covered by warranty or not.

That being said, its your car and your money and you have to live with the car so buy and drive what you prefer.

fifty
fifty Reader
2/12/10 2:56 p.m.
pinchvalve wrote: The new "R" model is worth waiting for. Haldex AWD + 240hp + 4 Doors + roomy hatchback + manual or DSG = perfect all around car?

Torsen > Haldex. Advantage Subaru!

The GTI does seem like a terrific car and gets universally positive reviews. The compact segment has a lot of great FWD cars at the moment: Subaru, Mazda, Mini, VW, Chevy (Cobalt). Good times!

irish44j
irish44j Reader
2/12/10 3:11 p.m.
pinchvalve wrote: The new "R" model is worth waiting for. Haldex AWD + 240hp + 4 Doors + roomy hatchback + manual or DSG = perfect all around car?

wow, that's all you get with the "R" model? 240hp? And it's probably 3500+ lbs knowing VW....

FWD-based Haldex AWD is nothing to rave about (in my opinion, having driven a couple Volvos with it). I mean, unless you like driving a FWD car.....

For probably less money, you can get a STi with real AWD + 300hp + 4 doors + roomy hatchback + 6MT...and an ECU that you can tune easily.

You can look like an 18-year old just as well in either, lol...

--

another option, if your wife wants something more low-key, is the WRX hatch (or sedan). You don't get the nifty AWD controller from the STi, but you can get the WRX (265hp) in Limited trim with leather, nicer interior panels, etc if your wife wants more creature comforts. And the new ones have MUCH stiffer chassis than the old ones and the ride is actually quite good and they feel solid.

Mazda3 is a good choice too. My wife very much liked hers (an '04), though the new ones are so ugly they make a subie look stylish in comparison. In three years with that car it had ZERO problems.

Before that she had a 2000 Jetta 2.0T and that thing was a POS. It looked and drove great, but it was in the dealer probably near a dozen times in the 2 years or so we owned it, as I recall. Almost all of them for electrical issues

Plus, the VW service sucked it big every time we did warranty visits...tried to blame all the problems on my wife...

irish44j
irish44j Reader
2/12/10 3:16 p.m.

double post..

Basil Exposition
Basil Exposition New Reader
2/12/10 3:41 p.m.

I looked at the GTI when I bought my MINI Cooper S in 2007. I liked the GTI a lot and it was a hard choice. Particularly since VW was discounting the GTI's and MINI was getting list price. If I could have tolerated the ugly paint job I could have got quite a deal on one of those Farenheit cars that the dealers were finding impossible to move (metallic orange works OK on a Lambo, maybe, but not on a VW). I ended up with the MINI for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons I shied away from the GTI was the poor rating that the VW dealers got from almost every source. I think there were even some public statements by VW at the time about how hard they were working to improve their dealer network, which would tell you something. I also wanted an automatic and didn't really find that the DSG was all that over the MINI's auto.

Unfortunately, I found that VW couldn't be any worse than the MINI dealer. Imagine my surprise when I found my dealer was trying to crawfish on every warranty repair possible, including known problems with service bulletins. And that they charge BMW prices for parts on what is supposed to be an economy car. $1000 for a fuel pump!? Give me a break.

If I had to do it over again I would have bought the GTI, saved about $3k, and if I had the same dealer troubles I would at least have been $3k ahead of the game.

GTwannaB
GTwannaB New Reader
2/12/10 5:33 p.m.
sevenracer wrote: - I didn't realize the pseudo LSD was new for 2010

Its the "Cross Differential System", I suppose I should drive one before I rag on it. I just don't think the concept. Edmunds liked the execution, but it caused brake fade:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/08/2010-volkswagen-gti-first-drive/

ea_sport
ea_sport New Reader
2/12/10 9:32 p.m.
sevenracer wrote: Why buy new? - It's a VW, I want the warranty - have heard the original 2.0T FSI has issues (like oil consumption) that were cured in the updated TFSI...not sure if this is fact or not

No to hijack but I am looking at 2008 GTI DSG w/ less than 20kmiles, where did you get the information you mentioned above? I want to learn more on the issues w/ this model. Thanks.

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