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93EXCivic
93EXCivic UltimaDork
3/28/12 10:21 p.m.

I am in that 70%. I think I can do well in the autocross and concours but the drag race forget about it!

SVreX
SVreX UltimaDork
3/28/12 10:23 p.m.

Kumhos won't help you in the drags. None of the serious drag racers will be wearing Kumhos on the dragstrip, regardless of the budget.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic UltimaDork
3/28/12 10:26 p.m.
SVreX wrote: Kumhos won't help you in the drags. None of the serious drag racers will be wearing Kumhos on the dragstrip, regardless of the budget.

Yeah I know but with the Yugo I am not going to bother with drag slicks.

SVreX
SVreX UltimaDork
3/28/12 10:26 p.m.

Oh wait... Yugo...

By "drag race", did you mean a competitive event kind of like a tractor pull that substitutes obsolete Yugoslavian made tin cans dragged down the track by race cars?

93EXCivic
93EXCivic UltimaDork
3/28/12 10:28 p.m.
SVreX wrote: Oh wait... Yugo... By "drag race", did you mean a competitive event kind of like a tractor pull that substitutes obsolete Yugoslavian made tin cans dragged down the track by race cars?

Yeah something like that. I may be bringing a W123 turbodiesel as well as the Yugo so the competition will be which one is slower down the drag strip...

SVreX
SVreX UltimaDork
3/28/12 10:36 p.m.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

In your case, a stiff breeze in the right direction will probably have a greater impact than any kind of tire possibly could!

I've got a great picture hanging over my desk from the '06 Challenge with Bill Elder staging against my Yugo in his Barracuda. He whooped me, then gave me a note that reinforced the shame by noting that, "You got BEAT by a treacherous old poot driving a 37 year old Barracuda!"

I have no idea what he pulled. I pulled a 17 second pass, with plenty of time for a donut and a nap after he crossed the finish line!

I did, however, beat him on the autocross.

JohnyHachi6
JohnyHachi6 Reader
3/28/12 10:48 p.m.

Frankly, I don't see this rule changing much of anything. The top teams have figured out how to get cheap auto-x tires that are wider and stickier than anything Kumho currently sells and I expect that they'll continue to use those. The mid-pack teams probably aren't going to shell out the bucks for a new set of semi-competitive tires from Kumho, unless they have some other use for them. Finally, no one will use Kumhos in the drag. So, I don't really see anyone using Kumhos unless they have too much money, can't find a good deal on something sticker, and are really tight on money in their car's $2012 budget.

I'm not saying this is good or bad, it's just the way I see it. I'm not against Kumho either, their support is great, they just don't make THE tire to have for this rule set.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg PowerDork
3/29/12 5:21 a.m.
JoeyM wrote:
SVreX wrote:
Argo1 wrote: Any racing takes money.
That is dangerously close to contradicting what I understand to be one of the foundational original purposes of the event... to show that real racing can happen and very fast cars can be built on very limited budgets.
+1

This is exactly my point.

Pat
Pat Reader
3/29/12 5:40 a.m.
aussiesmg wrote:
JoeyM wrote:
SVreX wrote:
Argo1 wrote: Any racing takes money.
That is dangerously close to contradicting what I understand to be one of the foundational original purposes of the event... to show that real racing can happen and very fast cars can be built on very limited budgets.
+1
This is exactly my point.

Bingo.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic UltimaDork
3/29/12 7:13 a.m.
JohnyHachi6 wrote: Frankly, I don't see this rule changing much of anything. The top teams have figured out how to get cheap auto-x tires that are wider and stickier than anything Kumho currently sells and I expect that they'll continue to use those. The mid-pack teams probably aren't going to shell out the bucks for a new set of semi-competitive tires from Kumho, unless they have some other use for them. Finally, no one will use Kumhos in the drag. So, I don't really see anyone using Kumhos unless they have too much money, can't find a good deal on something sticker, and are really tight on money in their car's $2012 budget. I'm not saying this is good or bad, it's just the way I see it. I'm not against Kumho either, their support is great, they just don't make THE tire to have for this rule set.

I thought V710s were pretty good tires.

spin_out
spin_out Reader
3/29/12 7:49 a.m.

I was thinking that I'd like to see 1/2 of the new Kuhmo tire cost apply against your budget, since some cars may not have a new Kumho available for their car.

Someone else mentioned buying a car that took a really fat tire. So true. This Free tire rule seems like a god send for competitors with Corvettes. If they had to count 1/2 of the cost in their budget, it would level the field somewhat. Go ahead and buy those 335s, but it shoud hurt your budget at least a little.

Pat makes a good point that we may see less cars at the Challenge because of this free tire rule. If you can't afford new Kumhos, or they don't make Kumhos that fit your car, some may consider staying at home. (But, I'm searching Craig's list for Corvettes as we speak. :) )

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac MegaDork
3/29/12 8:07 a.m.
93EXCivic wrote:
JohnyHachi6 wrote: Frankly, I don't see this rule changing much of anything. The top teams have figured out how to get cheap auto-x tires that are wider and stickier than anything Kumho currently sells and I expect that they'll continue to use those. The mid-pack teams probably aren't going to shell out the bucks for a new set of semi-competitive tires from Kumho, unless they have some other use for them. Finally, no one will use Kumhos in the drag. So, I don't really see anyone using Kumhos unless they have too much money, can't find a good deal on something sticker, and are really tight on money in their car's $2012 budget. I'm not saying this is good or bad, it's just the way I see it. I'm not against Kumho either, their support is great, they just don't make THE tire to have for this rule set.
I thought V710s were pretty good tires.

They are, and in this particular competition, the difference between V710s and A6s is probably a non-issue, since it's not even close to a "spec" competition.

They just aren't as good as A6s all things being equal, when it comes down to it.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac MegaDork
3/29/12 8:09 a.m.
spin_out wrote: I was thinking that I'd like to see 1/2 of the new Kuhmo tire cost apply against your budget, since some cars may not have a new Kumho available for their car. Someone else mentioned buying a car that took a really fat tire. So true. This Free tire rule seems like a god send for competitors with Corvettes. If they had to count 1/2 of the cost in their budget, it would level the field somewhat. Go ahead and buy those 335s, but it shoud hurt your budget at least a little. Pat makes a good point that we may see less cars at the Challenge because of this free tire rule. If you can't afford new Kumhos, or they don't make Kumhos that fit your car, some may consider staying at home. (But, I'm searching Craig's list for Corvettes as we speak. :) )

I'm still planning on coming either way this year, since this will be the last summer the MX6 stays under budget. But, if i find the upper half is all wearing brand spanking new Kumhos, i probably won't come back. I'm too competitive (my fault), and i'm not going to have the disposable income necessary to throw a grand in tires at the crappiest car in my possession for the sake of being competitive in a competition that's supposed to illustrate how fast you can go on a ~$2000 budget.

But either way, i'll see all ya'alls in Gainesville this year.

BradLTL
BradLTL HalfDork
3/29/12 8:14 a.m.
Pat wrote:
aussiesmg wrote:
JoeyM wrote:
SVreX wrote:
Argo1 wrote: Any racing takes money.
That is dangerously close to contradicting what I understand to be one of the foundational original purposes of the event... to show that real racing can happen and very fast cars can be built on very limited budgets.
+1
This is exactly my point.
Bingo.

I'm pretty sure the original, founding principle was to build fast cars on a budget, and go racing cheaply... not free. You guys are getting all wound up for nothing. No one is telling you to change anything you are doing. If you have a sweetheart deal, and can get better tires, you can still do it. This rule just allows those who don't to get competitive tires.

Tires are consumables, much like brakes. Guess what else is exempt from the budget? No one complains about the brakes (original replacements) being exempt because you don't gain an (noticeable) advantage from them in autox, or drag racing.

The spirit of the Challenge isn't the racing, it is the building and the community. The racing is just the measurement. If you are worried about a rule that makes the competition more even/fair... well you've missed the point and please feel free to continue flaming the rule.

Build your car, enjoy the event, don't sweat the small stuff.

poopshovel
poopshovel PowerDork
3/29/12 8:22 a.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
spin_out wrote: I was thinking that I'd like to see 1/2 of the new Kuhmo tire cost apply against your budget, since some cars may not have a new Kumho available for their car. Someone else mentioned buying a car that took a really fat tire. So true. This Free tire rule seems like a god send for competitors with Corvettes. If they had to count 1/2 of the cost in their budget, it would level the field somewhat. Go ahead and buy those 335s, but it shoud hurt your budget at least a little. Pat makes a good point that we may see less cars at the Challenge because of this free tire rule. If you can't afford new Kumhos, or they don't make Kumhos that fit your car, some may consider staying at home. (But, I'm searching Craig's list for Corvettes as we speak. :) )
I'm still planning on coming either way this year, since this will be the last summer the MX6 stays under budget. But, if i find the upper half is all wearing brand spanking new Kumhos, i probably won't come back. I'm too competitive (my fault), and i'm not going to have the disposable income necessary to throw a grand in tires at the crappiest car in my possession for the sake of being competitive in a competition that's supposed to illustrate how fast you can go on a ~$2000 budget. But either way, i'll see all ya'alls in Gainesville this year.

AGAIN, tire rule or no tire rule, AT LEAST the top 20% of the autocross field will be wearing R-comps that you can dig the tips of your fingers into.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac MegaDork
3/29/12 8:27 a.m.
poopshovel wrote:
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
spin_out wrote: I was thinking that I'd like to see 1/2 of the new Kuhmo tire cost apply against your budget, since some cars may not have a new Kumho available for their car. Someone else mentioned buying a car that took a really fat tire. So true. This Free tire rule seems like a god send for competitors with Corvettes. If they had to count 1/2 of the cost in their budget, it would level the field somewhat. Go ahead and buy those 335s, but it shoud hurt your budget at least a little. Pat makes a good point that we may see less cars at the Challenge because of this free tire rule. If you can't afford new Kumhos, or they don't make Kumhos that fit your car, some may consider staying at home. (But, I'm searching Craig's list for Corvettes as we speak. :) )
I'm still planning on coming either way this year, since this will be the last summer the MX6 stays under budget. But, if i find the upper half is all wearing brand spanking new Kumhos, i probably won't come back. I'm too competitive (my fault), and i'm not going to have the disposable income necessary to throw a grand in tires at the crappiest car in my possession for the sake of being competitive in a competition that's supposed to illustrate how fast you can go on a ~$2000 budget. But either way, i'll see all ya'alls in Gainesville this year.
AGAIN, tire rule or no tire rule, AT LEAST the top 20% of the autocross field will be wearing R-comps that you can dig the tips of your fingers into.

Sure... i'm just looking for top half. If the top 50% has R-Comps you can dig the tips of your fingers into, then that's not happening.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku SuperDork
3/29/12 9:45 a.m.

I'm not concerned about the Kumho clause. if someone just HAS to get that trophy at the end, go ahead and spend the extra $1,000. I'm just gonna lose anyway, so why spend the extra? More importantly, I don't care. Yes, I will put forth an honest effort, but fun is the real purpose here. I'm gonna come down, hang out with cool people, hoon about during the day and hoist some cold ones at night. No need to figure out how to pack 4 extra wheels and tires into a Fiero for a 1000 mile road trip to do that.

Weather I finish 1st or 101st, GRM will still print everyone's pic in the magazine (THANK YOU!!) and no one from from a race team will be offering a "free ride" to any of us for winning this.

mtn
mtn PowerDork
3/29/12 9:52 a.m.
SVreX wrote:
Per Schroeder wrote: I'm seeing people show up with some pretty fresh Hoosier A6s and claiming them as free from other autocrossers. It's something we can't police, so we can at least make it interesting by biasing it towards our presenting sponsor.
I like giving the best sponsor an advantage. Perhaps the "free" A6's could be combated with a heavier application of rules 31 and 32? I love you guys, but it looks a little soft sometimes. I thought "free" had to be FMVed.

If it is offered up to the public, free is FMV.

That is my understanding, anyways. I've never participated or been to a challenge.

Argo1
Argo1 Reader
3/29/12 9:56 a.m.

OK, Let me see if I've got this straight - (1) You don't want to spend the money on new tires for a car that is going to lose anyway. (2) Kumho tires aren't competitive. (3) You have to have new Kumhos or you won't be competitive. (4) You're going to pick up your marbles and go home because somebody will have new tires that are not competitive and you were going to lose anyway but the fast guys will still have faster tires so it doesn't matter you are never going to win and you can just stay home and drink beer. Did I miss anything? You guys complain like a bunch of old ladies.

Pat
Pat Reader
3/29/12 10:37 a.m.
Argo1 wrote: Did I miss anything? You guys complain like a bunch of old ladies.

Yes. You missed that a guy who wears a t-shirt at the challenge that says "Bend Over, We're Driving!" finds me deliciously handsome.

I'm a bit nervous...

93EXCivic
93EXCivic UltimaDork
3/29/12 10:43 a.m.
mtn wrote:
SVreX wrote:
Per Schroeder wrote: I'm seeing people show up with some pretty fresh Hoosier A6s and claiming them as free from other autocrossers. It's something we can't police, so we can at least make it interesting by biasing it towards our presenting sponsor.
I like giving the best sponsor an advantage. Perhaps the "free" A6's could be combated with a heavier application of rules 31 and 32? I love you guys, but it looks a little soft sometimes. I thought "free" had to be FMVed.
If it is offered up to the public, free is FMV. That is my understanding, anyways. I've never participated or been to a challenge.

That is what I always though...

Gasoline
Gasoline Reader
3/29/12 11:30 a.m.

Just a FYI. I just called the Tire Rack and Discount Tire and they are out of stock on the 2 sizes of V710's I inquired about. They called Kumho and were given late April on one size and they would get back to them on the other size.

Note to self: Don't count chicken.

Supercoupe
Supercoupe HalfDork
3/29/12 11:57 a.m.

look at it from the GRM point, the event is an editorial piece, Kumho is an advertiser that helps defray the cost of the event. If the powers that be (Margie) wants to throw them a value added extra for being a supporter of the event, ie, excluding the cost of their product from the budget, what's the big deal. You can take advantage of it or not, it's your call. I would rather have a rule like this that will help to keep the event happening year after year than see it stopped due to the expense of it all.

You can't really think the entry fee supports the whole deal unless you just crawled out from under a rock.

Sucks on the timing of this years event and family obligations, especially since 2 years ago I said as long as it's not the first or second weekend of October that you want to get married is okay with my schedule.

Should have just said to get married in the spring..

MrJoshua
MrJoshua PowerDork
3/29/12 12:06 p.m.

You guys are wrong about corvette tires. The 335 size seems to pop up cheap used WAAAAY more often than the smaller sizes. 335's in 17 or 18" dia., 285 in 18" dia. and 225's in 13 or 15" dia. are my most common finds. These are of course road race instead of autocross compound, but I think most of us will be fine taking that slight hit for cheap or free tires.

SilverFleet
SilverFleet Dork
3/29/12 12:17 p.m.
Supercoupe wrote: Sucks on the timing of this years event and family obligations, especially since 2 years ago I said as long as it's not the first or second weekend of October that you want to get married is okay with my schedule. Should have just said to get married in the spring..

It seems that this happens to someone every year. Last year, it was me. Don't sweat it. It gives you an extra year of tuning time!

As far as the tires thing goes...

The rule is fine with me. I don't see it making a huge impact, because most of us are cheap bastards anyway, and will just get used slicks. Also, for those of us with possible Challenge cars that might see street time (like my CSX), it acts as an incentive to get Kumho tires for our cars. I plan on running my CSX in the next few years If I ever finish the car, and it needs tires anyway, so I might as well get some sticky summer-only Kumhos instead of the el cheapo tires I was going to get. It's not going to be a top contender anyway, because the car would probably be competing for the "Under $1000" class win, so I'm not concerned.

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