$2017 Challenge Rules and Date Announced

In reply to bluej:

Nothing is stopping them from buying drag tires. Put them in the budget.

In reply to SVreX:

Ok I paid $274 for my two front tires. They came with my $1 Ford Ranger.

Stampie wrote: In reply to SVreX: Ok I paid $274 for my two front tires. They came with my $1 Ford Ranger.

If that's what your receipt says, so be it. I think you overpaid for your tires.

Look, you are going through gymnastics because the new rules flipped things around on you, and you now have to figure out how to put the cost of a couple tires in your budget. That's exactly what they are trying to accomplish. You have the option of running only 4 tires. They can be brand new, and budget exempt. If you use more than 4, they need to be accounted for.

I had a car already underway, which will now not work, because the budget calculations have changed since the Town Hall Meeting. I bought a car and a parts car which that I can't use because the math won't work. Oh well.

I jumped the gun before the rules were written and assumed it would work. You did too. At least you get to regroup. I'm out $1500.

The staff is trying to write a rule that exempts 4 tires, and only 4 tires. You are trying to wiggle around it.

Used to be we had to include the purchase price of ALL tires.

Calm down everybody.

Edit: The tire rule is the same it was in $2016.

In reply to Tom Suddard:

Sorry if it sounded like I was upset. I'm not.

I think your rule works very well. Just don't think the tires that came with the vehicle can be also excluded.

4 cheapest tires= 4 cheapest tires. If you run the tires that came on the car, those are probably your cheapest tires. Everyone still has the option of buying 4 tires.

Personally as someone who missed $2016 and is looking at 2017 as being the first time I come down to the challenge I liked the previous years rules. Being able to have one set of decent tires that DONT count towards the budget would make the event more fun for me.

In my case the tires that came with the car were pretty bad so I bought some nicer nitto in a bigger rim size. The runs going against the budget was planned but not the tires

In reply to Antihero:

You don't have to use the tires that came with the car. The 4 free tires are the 4 least expensive ones you actually USE at the event.

Your 4 Nittos would not hit your budget, unless you used additional (cheaper) tires.

Its actually the same rule as last year, if you use only 4 tires.

In reply to SVreX:

Ah that makes sense, I blame being overworked and not enough sleep on me missing that

2 of our 3 cars that we planned to bring in 2017 were being built with the old tire rule in place. Since we now have to add the tire cost for the more expensive set into the budget we can not finish the projects under the limit. We may be out.

On tires I agree not fixing it this year.

I have a new concern though, how are c clips eliminators handled? Rotating parts so budget exempt? I feel they violate the spirit of the event as they aren't intended for street use. I feel Challenge is about building the best streetable vehicle not race only vehicle*. Specifically we were planning on using a Ford 8.8.

*Not meant to disparage anyone. I'd rock the hell, on the street, outta the winners I've seen the last two years.

Tom Suddard wrote: Calm down everybody. I'm still mulling it over, but I'm thinking 2017 might not be the year to try and "fix" the tire rule. If you have a strong opinion about it, please post it asap.

Personally, I liked the old rule. It gave everyone the chance to make a decision on how they were going to leverage the exemption while still addressing the originally stated intention to take away the perceived advantage that some had because of their proximity to used rubber. The different strategies employed in how teams took advantage of all of this is part of the fun.

I am curious though, what is it you are trying to "fix" with the tire rule?

In reply to wheels777:

Can you help me understand the math on that?

I think the new tire rule is awesome, either you can have one set of new tires or two sets of cheaper used tires.

Pat wrote: I am curious though, what is it you are trying to "fix" with the tire rule?

+1. I'd like some clarity there, in the staff's own words.

I think there's a possibility that Paul is arguing on behalf of a perspective that isn't completely aligned w/ the staff's intent.

Thank you to all of the staff for working so hard to get this out as quickly as possible, I appreciate it! I know that there were a myriad of issues and rules to address and I would never want the job of sorting it all out for myself...

Of course, I honestly will not really read them very closely myself since I am not interested in being competitive and only build cars how I truly want them. I do, however, see that they are already generating discussion, adaptation, innovation and action. This is a good thing!

Well done; I am already working hard and will see you all next year.

wheels777 wrote: Stated simply, we are out.

Not particularly happy about this turn of events.

Okay, sorry for the scare everybody.

The old tire rule is sticking around.

I'll update the website and clarify in the morning, but for now you can sleep/fantasize about tires soundly tonight.

Tom Suddard wrote: Okay, sorry for the scare everybody. The old tire rule is sticking around. I'll update the website and clarify in the morning, but for now you can sleep/fantasize about tires soundly tonight.

Really? I take back my previous statement about doing such a great job so quickly... I'll get back to you when the rules actually come out...

WAIT!!!!! Someones chance of winning DECREASES because they need to use two different sets of tires, So the rules are going to be changed back?????

In reply to Dark_Horse:

The way I saw the "new" rule was that it unfairly balanced towards lower powered autocross cars. Used autocross tires are widely available used but used drag tires aren't. I'm looking at spending $400 plus for 2 drag tires this year vs. $300 for 4 used autocross tires. And it's not just the 12 second and faster cars. We needed drag tires on our 14.4 second car this year. Probably could have gotten into the 13s with them.

Hmmm... what did the name of that magazine used to be?

SVreX wrote: In reply to wheels777: Can you help me understand the math on that?

I read first 4 as "I bought these nt01's then i bought 2 slicks a few months later so the nt01's are in the budget"

In reply to patgizz:

OK, but the rules also say they do not intend to exclude any past Challenge cars, so an exception would be made for your car.

Andrew was building cars that ran 10's for this event before any tires were exempt (and you own one of them). I'm trying to figure out how the math specifically hurt him.

Not a big deal. Tom has spoken. But I was trying to understand a different perspective.

My attitude is, you build to the rules. I don't really care what the rules are, just want to know what they are. And this particular rule set was not going to affect any previous Challenge car, because they could all be grandfathered.

I was a dumbazz and bought a car before I knew the rules. I knew better. Doesn't mean I won't come, it just means I have to start over and build to the rules.

I don't actually. It was mislabeled in the magazine last year. Andrew still has the red challenge Z covered in dust in a barn somewhere.

I edited my post because I didn't read all the replies, but my general intent was to show where my head was with the budget. It didn't even cross my mind that i wrote off my more expensive tires as my free ones until i read your (svrex) math questions.

In reply to Stampie:

I do not Subscribe to GRM for drag racing!!!!

Competing with just one set of tires levels the playing field, Underpowered autocross/sportcars do not benefit from drag tires.

It would also save everyone REAL MONEY in real life!!!