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Osterkraut
Osterkraut UberDork
2/6/18 6:55 a.m.
irish44j said:
Blaise said:

Shouldn't this be titled, "car noob buys Ferrari, then pays a shop to install parts designed by a ferrari specialist to upgrade from factory spec?"

A bit misleading. Still a cool car, but certainly not what I expected from the title.

ditto.

#yesIamjealous

but

#letskeepitgrassroots

 

Idea of "grassroots" as drifted a bit over the years. 

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
2/6/18 7:21 a.m.

In reply to Osterkraut :

This is not exactly a new subject of discussion.  The GRM folks have commented in the past how we forum members tend to be more...  "budget conscious..." than the typical subscriber to the magazine, few of which participate in the forums. 

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
2/6/18 7:27 a.m.

Yeah, I don’t know why but for some reason a bunch of people here think the 20xx challenge is all that GRM is while conveniently forgetting about the UTCC. The budget on this car can’t be any worse than an average UTCC winner. 

Blaise
Blaise Reader
2/6/18 7:37 a.m.
dculberson said:

Yeah, I don’t know why but for some reason a bunch of people here think the 20xx challenge is all that GRM is while conveniently forgetting about the UTCC. The budget on this car can’t be any worse than an average UTCC winner. 

Not what I said. No hate for those who have big $ and nice cars. Hell, I'm on my way there!

"A Car Noob Dives Into Ferrari Ownership and Fixes the Factory's Mistakes"

^ There's my beef.

"Upgrading a Ferrari 308 in every way" How's that? This guy didn't dive into or fix anything - which is fine. Just misleading, and I'd love GRM to stay away from misleading headlines.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
2/6/18 8:35 a.m.

Ahh, yeah that makes sense. Sorry. So maybe the question is, whose hands are dirty? If it's not the car's owner's hands, well...

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
2/6/18 8:50 p.m.
Blaise said:
dculberson said:

Yeah, I don’t know why but for some reason a bunch of people here think the 20xx challenge is all that GRM is while conveniently forgetting about the UTCC. The budget on this car can’t be any worse than an average UTCC winner. 

Not what I said. No hate for those who have big $ and nice cars. Hell, I'm on my way there!

"A Car Noob Dives Into Ferrari Ownership and Fixes the Factory's Mistakes"

^ There's my beef.

"Upgrading a Ferrari 308 in every way" How's that? This guy didn't dive into or fix anything - which is fine. Just misleading, and I'd love GRM to stay away from misleading headlines.

Also my point. I don't necessarily think "grassroots" means "cheap" - I very much think, for instance, that the Lambo Jalpa build is Grassroots.  I don't own any project cars that I did for $500....I buy good parts and try to do a good job within my budget. But I definitely think "Grassroots" means doing mostof the work yourself. Buying a car and then having a shop install a bunch of stuff on it isn't grassroots - whether it's a Miata or a Ferrari. IMO.

 

te72
te72 New Reader
2/6/18 11:03 p.m.
dculberson said:

Ahh, yeah that makes sense. Sorry. So maybe the question is, whose hands are dirty? If it's not the car's owner's hands, well...

This right here. I'd define a grassroots build as anything built in your home garage. Are you gonna have to outsource some stuff? Most likely, depending on how well equipped your garage is, and the scope of your project.

 

Money really doesn't even enter the definition if you ask me. I've spent an embarrassing amount on my Supra over the years (not an uncommon story in that world), yet, I know every inch of that car. Took it apart and completely refreshed the mechanicals over the span of a couple years. It's a brand new Toyota... that's 30 years old!  Point being, I turn my own wrenches. I do some minor fabrication. I'm getting into welding. I don't have my own machine shop, had to outsource that. I can't see electricity working, so that still puzzles me. All adds up to my ridiculous car being a grassroots car, at least by any definition I can come up with.

 

Ironically, no grass on the property... hmm.

gearheadmb
gearheadmb Dork
2/7/18 7:02 a.m.

There is a lot of saltiness in this thread. The guy wanted a certain car, and he bought the cheapest one. We all know it's a bad idea, and we all have,and most of us will, continue to do the exact same thing. Then when it started to go sideways he did what he could do himself, and farmed the rest out. Not so different from what we all do. It wasn't the cheapest way to do it, but he ended with a good quality finished product. 

Do you know what I like about grm features? Diversity. When I was a kid I had subscription to Hot Rod. By the early 2000s, after they switched from "Prostreet" to "Protouring" it seemed like every feature car was a 60s car with an LS and airbags. Every tech article was how to put an LS or airbags in your 60s car. It got so freakin boring. I like grm because it gives you 31 flavors. They won't all be your favorite, but it's nice to have the variety. Would you really want to have every article be how to set up a miata for autocross in your driveway? 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/7/18 7:20 a.m.

In reply to gearheadmb :

I agree with that. Variety is what keeps things interesting here. I personally want more of everything. More cheap cars. More expensive cars. More home welding. More shop fabrications. More metal. More composites. More gas/diesel/electric/hybrid/race car/daily driver everything. More. 

Blaise
Blaise HalfDork
2/7/18 7:23 a.m.

In reply to gearheadmb :

I like variety. And this is good variety.

I don't like misleading titles.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
2/7/18 9:48 a.m.
Blaise said:

In reply to gearheadmb :

I like variety. And this is good variety.

I don't like misleading titles.

I don't see it as misleading. Whether he did the work or paid for (really how many of you are building 80s-era Ferrari engines in your garages) he still was the driving force behind it. 

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
2/7/18 1:39 p.m.
gearheadmb said:

There is a lot of saltiness in this thread. The guy wanted a certain car, and he bought the cheapest one. We all know it's a bad idea, and we all have,and most of us will, continue to do the exact same thing. Then when it started to go sideways he did what he could do himself, and farmed the rest out. Not so different from what we all do. It wasn't the cheapest way to do it, but he ended with a good quality finished product. 

Do you know what I like about grm features? Diversity. When I was a kid I had subscription to Hot Rod. By the early 2000s, after they switched from "Prostreet" to "Protouring" it seemed like every feature car was a 60s car with an LS and airbags. Every tech article was how to put an LS or airbags in your 60s car. It got so freakin boring. I like grm because it gives you 31 flavors. They won't all be your favorite, but it's nice to have the variety. Would you really want to have every article be how to set up a miata for autocross in your driveway? 

I don't think anyone here is salty about the car, nor what the owner did with it. The car is gorgeous, and there is nothing wrong with having someone else do the work if you can afford to and/or don't have the experties. We all do it sometimes. I think the only saltiness is the evolving definition of Grasroots (which is a matter of opinion either way).  And of course a little bit of jealousy ;)

dherr
dherr Reader
2/7/18 2:57 p.m.

Agree that getting out the checkbook and "fixing a Ferrari" may not be grassroots, but we all remember the 308 very well from our youth and most of us have fantasies about buying one cheap as they are just so gorgeous to look at.  I remember looking at these in the early 2000s and they were in the 20K range and something I could stretch to buy as a "toy". So  as a reader, forum member  and subscriber, I enjoyed reading the article and drooling over the pictures. Not how I would do it, but it was worth my time.

With that said, the Lambo build was even more awesome. Most of us here on this board do as much of the work we can ourselves and take pride in it. But I want to read about more than that too, so when GRM points out more expensive builds and projects on cool cars, the more the merrier.

So perhaps the fix is to just title them different such as "Ultimate checkbook build - Ferrari 308" verse " Grassroots build - LSX mid-engine Yugo home garage build"

pres589
pres589 PowerDork
2/7/18 3:33 p.m.

Remember the guy that was working on putting a twin-turbo LS motor into a 308 using a Subaru transmission?

I wonder how that all worked out.  I would guess "not at all" due to the length of time since that thread came back up again.  

te72
te72 New Reader
2/7/18 11:38 p.m.
pres589 said:

Remember the guy that was working on putting a twin-turbo LS motor into a 308 using a Subaru transmission?

I wonder how that all worked out.  I would guess "not at all" due to the length of time since that thread came back up again.  

There's a pretty good reason that most LS engines mounted in the middle use the Porsche G50... turns out, it's not made of glass and glitter, like Subaru transmissions!

 

Cool idea, but part of why so many build threads bum me out when they fail to reach the goal. I get that things don't always work out, but it's sad to see what could have been sometimes. Also part of why I haven't really put any effort into my build thread, even though the car is perfectly driveable.

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
2/8/18 6:01 a.m.
te72 said:
pres589 said:

Remember the guy that was working on putting a twin-turbo LS motor into a 308 using a Subaru transmission?

I wonder how that all worked out.  I would guess "not at all" due to the length of time since that thread came back up again.  

There's a pretty good reason that most LS engines mounted in the middle use the Porsche G50... turns out, it's not made of glass and glitter, like Subaru transmissions!

 

Cool idea, but part of why so many build threads bum me out when they fail to reach the goal. I get that things don't always work out, but it's sad to see what could have been sometimes. Also part of why I haven't really put any effort into my build thread, even though the car is perfectly driveable.

Don't forget the person who started the thread sold the car, and the 2nd owner was the one doing the turbo-LS madness. 

te72
te72 New Reader
2/8/18 10:46 p.m.

In reply to Pete Gossett :

Definitely worth noting. Cool when new owners continue a build thread that they didn't start, but I haven't seen it happen often...

chandler
chandler PowerDork
2/10/18 8:33 p.m.
Pete Gossett said:
te72 said:
pres589 said:

Remember the guy that was working on putting a twin-turbo LS motor into a 308 using a Subaru transmission?

I wonder how that all worked out.  I would guess "not at all" due to the length of time since that thread came back up again.  

There's a pretty good reason that most LS engines mounted in the middle use the Porsche G50... turns out, it's not made of glass and glitter, like Subaru transmissions!

 

Cool idea, but part of why so many build threads bum me out when they fail to reach the goal. I get that things don't always work out, but it's sad to see what could have been sometimes. Also part of why I haven't really put any effort into my build thread, even though the car is perfectly driveable.

Don't forget the person who started the thread sold the car, and the 2nd owner was the one doing the turbo-LS madness. 

It was actually three owners in, second owner parted pieces then started LS then sold it to a college student who was using it as a school project.

0001
0001 New Reader
1/25/19 2:48 p.m.

Beautiful car and kudos to the owner for keeping it real. I also fully expected this to be another small block chevrolet V8 conversion, automatic transmission and all, so happy to be wrong!

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
1/25/19 3:15 p.m.

In reply to Ian F :

Those P1800 ES rust repairs are not that hard...just need to get stuck in!

 

As relevant to this thread, I have reached a stage in life where I view un-necessary complexity as bad engineering and to be honest am not that interested in drivable Rube-Goldberg machines.

 

Pete

te72
te72 Reader
1/25/19 9:38 p.m.
NOHOME said:

As relevant to this thread, I have reached a stage in life where I view un-necessary complexity as bad engineering and to be honest am not that interested in drivable Rube-Goldberg machines.

 

Pete

Pete, I can relate. I try to keep things as simple as possible, while achieving what I want to do with a car. Sometimes... those goals take a bit of thinking and complexity. Servicing a vehicle should be easy too. I feel my project came out pretty good in that department.

 

Going to be changing up the entire engine bay and moving some things around, both for better weight distribution as well as accessibility reasons.

wspohn
wspohn Dork
1/27/19 11:39 a.m.

Don't think I'd want to touch a modern exotic, especially the mid-engined cars which sometimes need the rear body removed to do much.

 

I prefer the older classic cars.  I did much of the work to reawaken my old exotic myself (including taking a week to resurface the cam followers on oiled fine sandpaper while watching TV in the evenings).

 

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
1/27/19 10:30 p.m.
dannyzabolotny said:

I agree, for the money I'd rather have a 348. I've always loved the mini-Testarossa styling of it, plus the engine is longitudinal in the 348 versus transverse in the 308, making a lot of basic maintenance much more straightforward.

I would rather have the older Dino 206 or 246. That lovely curved bodywork instead of wedges.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
1/28/19 7:30 a.m.
mad_machine said:
dannyzabolotny said:

I agree, for the money I'd rather have a 348. I've always loved the mini-Testarossa styling of it, plus the engine is longitudinal in the 348 versus transverse in the 308, making a lot of basic maintenance much more straightforward.

I would rather have the older Dino 206 or 246. That lovely curved bodywork instead of wedges.

The "curvy" Ferraris have grown on me, although when I was a kid it was wedge or nothing. 

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