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akylekoz
akylekoz SuperDork
4/1/21 6:32 a.m.

In reply to Driven5 :

This brings me to my 2008 Mustang, is it old or new?  Stick axle, Lopey cammed V8, retro styled.  New and nice enough to cruise with SWMBO, after some Steeda boltons and it handles a track day very well.  With heated seats, AC and a decent stereo, it is enjoyable for longer trips.  The pre 2010 interior has a simple old school vibe that I like, two big gauges, three knob heater and a volume knob. 

A balance that I can live with, better than my 92?  Maybe in some ways other ways not.   Better than a 2018, same answer.  

What I don't like is how common it is, this may change in another ten years.   

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
4/1/21 6:37 a.m.

I have no interest in new cars. Zero. None.

Sure, they are exemplary performers. But they are all some of the ugliest cars ever produced. And overweight. And riddled with electronic crap I don't want or need. And, expensive.

I suppose it makes me a Luddite. I'm okay with that. I no longer enjoyed working on cars until I returned to the analog cars of yore. The fun is back, provided I can avoid the rusted fasteners and sheet metal.

Tim Suddard
Tim Suddard Publisher
4/1/21 8:33 a.m.

I think there was a pinnacle for cars in the late nineties. They got emissions, fuel injection, safety, ergonomics, reliability and some other stuff we needed figured out, but cars had not yet gotten heavy, with so many nannies and such ugly styling. The new Corvette or BMW M2 might be exceptions to my theory.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
4/1/21 8:36 a.m.

Yes.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/1/21 9:10 a.m.

Does your new car have a crotch vent? Didn't think so.

Driven5
Driven5 UltraDork
4/1/21 9:36 a.m.
Tim Suddard said:

I think there was a pinnacle for cars in the late nineties.

Can I buy some rose colored glasses from you?

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
4/1/21 12:29 p.m.

No, the pinnacle was back in the 1960s or very early 70s before smog legislation gutted them all.

New cars may be more fun while they are running; old cars are more fun even when they stop running because a shade tree mechanic has a hope of tinkering them back to life.   If your modern beast kacks out on you, all you can do is get out your cell phone and wallet and arrange for someone else to fix it for you.

FMB42
FMB42 Reader
4/1/21 1:57 p.m.

Quote: "If your modern beast kacks out on you, all you can do is get out your cell phone and wallet and arrange for someone else to fix it for you."

I think you're posting on the wrong forum. Shade tree tinkering is not what GRM is about.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
4/1/21 2:08 p.m.

I kind of like when an OBD2 car throws a code having a bluetooth dongle send the code and a diag report to my phone. Knowing that I need to replace the cam position sensor makes it a much easier job then setting points ever was. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
4/1/21 2:15 p.m.
wspohn said:

No, the pinnacle was back in the 1960s or very early 70s before smog legislation gutted them all.

New cars may be more fun while they are running; old cars are more fun even when they stop running because a shade tree mechanic has a hope of tinkering them back to life.

 

I not feel like I missed out on anything.

Earlier today I had in a late model GMC where the hood hadn't been opened for 9000mi.  It was two quarts low on oil.  50-60 years ago, at 9000mi it'd be getting its second replacement set of points and plugs, and would be halfway along to its first valve job.

 

Plus, the more hands have been into something, the more likely it is to have been hacked badly.  Stripped screws in the distributor.  Carburetor ALL out of whack because they were trying to mess with the choke and the idle mixture adjustments to solve a problem caused by weak spark because the dwell is off.  I pulled the head off of a Pontiac 400 where someone sank all of the valves because they were a bit too enthusiastic with the seat grinder.  Cheap stamped valve covers warped all to hell because someone cranked the fasteners down.  

 

The beauty of modern hands-off vehicle maintenance is that it is far less likely for someone to screw anything up!

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
4/1/21 2:54 p.m.

My 996 Turbo is raw.  It has turbo lag, it makes the right noises, the hydraulic steering rack has feedback where the steering wheel will buck.  It's just fun.  It's new enough that everything always works, I'm not worried about it not starting, or the hvac not working, it's also stupidly fast. 

The 1993 Corrado VR6?  Not so fast, reliability questionable, but an awesome sounding motor, light on its feet and great steering feedback.

My "modern" Golf R?  Insanely quick, 100% reliable, heated seats, Apple Car Play, very little steering feedback.  Fun car, but nowhere near as involving as the other two.  A nice DD, but not an emotion inducing ride.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
4/1/21 3:10 p.m.

Old cars = Easier to work on or modify. Much more visceral and raucous. Also depending on the car much more of a headache or uncomfortable. 

New cars = boring and complicated; however, a lot of creature comforts and tech that can make long commutes short. 

Jeremy Clarkson said it best when reviewing his Mk7 GTI. I can't quote him directly but with new sport compacts offer performance and comfort all in one package - in the past we always had to sacrifice something. 

APEowner
APEowner Dork
4/1/21 3:23 p.m.
Appleseed said:

Does your new car have a crotch vent? Didn't think so.

My '68 Coronet had a huge floor vent that would, at speeds above 65 or so blow a girl's skirt up around her waist.  My girlfriend at the time called it the obscene vent.  I no longer have the car but unless I screw things up that girl and I will be celebrating 30 years of marriage in June.

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
4/1/21 3:52 p.m.
APEowner said:
Appleseed said:

Does your new car have a crotch vent? Didn't think so.

My '68 Coronet had a huge floor vent that would, at speeds above 65 or so blow a girl's skirt up around her waist.  My girlfriend at the time called it the obscene vent.  I no longer have the car but unless I screw things up that girl and I will be celebrating 30 years of marriage in June.

Well done congratulations, sir 

The 30 year marriage is nice too.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
4/1/21 5:17 p.m.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

I kind of like when an OBD2 car throws a code having a bluetooth dongle send the code and a diag report to my phone. Knowing that I need to replace the cam position sensor makes it a much easier job then setting points ever was. 

So, 10 feet from me, is a Japanese Cockroach, an '01 Corolla.  

 

Aside from a myriad evap codes that generally mean it needs a charcoal canister assembly, it had a P0125.  "Engine coolant temperature insufficient to enter closed loop fuel control" or somesuch.  Hey, insufficient coolant temp, that means replace the thermostat and keep chuggin', right?

Well....

The criteria for setting that malfunction is not seeing the oxygen sensor ever exceed 450mv.

One thing that can cause that, such as what was occurring on this old 1ZZ, is the now-Bakelite valve cover gasket heaving oil, which runs down the exhaust manifold heat shield, dripping directly onto the upstream oxygen sensor.

 

So that P-oh-thermostat is really a bad valve cover gasket that nuked an oxygen sensor...

 

Oh.  And someone had been in here before, and stripped the wire insulation from the harness side of the oxygen sensor connector.  Not green with corrosion yet but lots of frayed wires.  Can't find an O2 pigtail, time to get inventive...

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) UberDork
4/1/21 7:38 p.m.

An old pal and I did a serious backroads blat a few months ago. One car was one of the later air-cooled 911s with an updated motor and some nice mods. The other was a practically new GT3 Porsche. The older car was hands-down more fun because it had more feedback, loved being tossed and was smaller. The GT3 was like handing a 20 lb dumbell to a bodybuilder. "This is cool and all, but where's the track?".   

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
4/2/21 6:56 a.m.
FMB42 said:

Quote: "If your modern beast kacks out on you, all you can do is get out your cell phone and wallet and arrange for someone else to fix it for you."

I think you're posting on the wrong forum. Shade tree tinkering is not what GRM is about.

There was a time it was. I miss those days.

Jerry
Jerry PowerDork
4/2/21 7:22 a.m.

In late as usual. but the title says "more enjoyable", not "better".  And the answer still, is sometimes.  Also, what is your year cut-off?

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
4/2/21 9:38 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
wspohn said:

No, the pinnacle was back in the 1960s or very early 70s before smog legislation gutted them all.

New cars may be more fun while they are running; old cars are more fun even when they stop running because a shade tree mechanic has a hope of tinkering them back to life.

 

I not feel like I missed out on anything.

Earlier today I had in a late model GMC where the hood hadn't been opened for 9000mi.  It was two quarts low on oil.  50-60 years ago, at 9000mi it'd be getting its second replacement set of points and plugs, and would be halfway along to its first valve job.

 

Plus, the more hands have been into something, the more likely it is to have been hacked badly.  Stripped screws in the distributor.  Carburetor ALL out of whack because they were trying to mess with the choke and the idle mixture adjustments to solve a problem caused by weak spark because the dwell is off.  I pulled the head off of a Pontiac 400 where someone sank all of the valves because they were a bit too enthusiastic with the seat grinder.  Cheap stamped valve covers warped all to hell because someone cranked the fasteners down.  

 

The beauty of modern hands-off vehicle maintenance is that it is far less likely for someone to screw anything up!

As a teenager I worked on an old Duesenburg,  built in the late 1920's worked on through the Great Depression and WW2  clear up to the 1950's into the 1960's when I worked on it.  
    The remarkable thing was the care all those mechanics had.  Not one rounded but or bolt. No stripped screws.  
    While the car had the patina for age there wasn't a single sign of Hackery.  I took the care to make sure the screw driver properly fit the screw.  Took a few moments with the grinder and whetstone. Took the time to ensure the wrench was on square. Not only wiped things clean, I actually polished my work out of appreciation of the fine car I had a chance to service.  

malibuguy
malibuguy HalfDork
4/2/21 10:05 p.m.

I disagree with the cars lasting thing.

90s-00s Japanese cars for peak durability in more cases then not.

 

I dont expect most of the newer stuff to be around like 20-30yo stuff is

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
4/2/21 10:28 p.m.

In reply to malibuguy :

Lemme tell you about the 20 year old Japanese car that literally started crumbling everywhere I put a wrench to it, today.

It still has jacking points, so it didn't seem to be that bad,  but when one of the chassis laterals broke out with moderate pressure on a 3/8" ratchet, I knew I was going to be in for a bad day.

 

If you want a car that will last forever, get a Swedish car, or certain German cars.  If you want a car that will run forever, get a Japanese car.

Japanese cars do not last forever, and European cars do not run forever.

 

I have a Swedish car.  I can fix mechanical and electronic problems.

Justjim75
Justjim75 SuperDork
4/2/21 10:56 p.m.

I think my sweet spot is 1995 to 2005.  And I need three, a truck from 95-99, a Miata from 2000 to 04, and my 05 Legacy GT Limited wagon 5 speed to daily.  I'll save my motorcycle list for a different thread 

RichardSIA
RichardSIA HalfDork
4/3/21 2:18 a.m.

Hmm, lets see.

"Bought a new...", um, no, never happened and never will. I've driven current production cars, they annoy me beyond civil discussion with their automatic locks, light that do not turn off on demand, distracting video displays, varied nanny buzzers, and absolutely numb ride.

I literally fear they will kill me with boredom as the drive is like watching video, great for falling asleep but not for driving.

Took forty plus years to acquire my Lotus Europa, the only car I ever tried to buy new.

Looking closely the newest car I have is a '91 Buick I cannot wait to be rid of, unless you count cars I am building from parts as "New"?

The whole premise of the article is surreal to me, the cars the author is nostalgic about are too new for my consideration. My cars are nearly all 60's - 70's as I cannot afford 50's cars anymore.

Peak of U.S. production was 1970, maybe up to 1972 for a few. Imports got a reprieve from the worst Gov. mandates/neutering up to about 1974. From there is has all been downhill, now we are to embrace the electrique freque show, no way. Infinite resistance! ∞Ω

 

malibuguy
malibuguy HalfDork
4/3/21 7:32 a.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Your right about rust...and really thats hit or miss.  I have 3 tercels, with different places of rust, one is very solid other then some wheel well rust, but the rest of the car is solid.  The race beater has rocker rust and the very end of the frame/trunk floor is kinda crappy...while its wells are PERFECT.  Then my 4dr has kinda little of both but not as bad...and has nearly 2wice the mileage (260k)  and lived on a farm for the last handful of years before I bought it.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
4/3/21 10:41 a.m.
RichardSIA said:

Hmm, lets see.

"Bought a new...", um, no, never happened and never will. I've driven current production cars, they annoy me beyond civil discussion with their automatic locks, light that do not turn off on demand, distracting video displays, varied nanny buzzers, and absolutely numb ride.

I literally fear they will kill me with boredom as the drive is like watching video, great for falling asleep but not for driving.

Took forty plus years to acquire my Lotus Europa, the only car I ever tried to buy new.

Looking closely the newest car I have is a '91 Buick I cannot wait to be rid of, unless you count cars I am building from parts as "New"?

The whole premise of the article is surreal to me, the cars the author is nostalgic about are too new for my consideration. My cars are nearly all 60's - 70's as I cannot afford 50's cars anymore.

Peak of U.S. production was 1970, maybe up to 1972 for a few. Imports got a reprieve from the worst Gov. mandates/neutering up to about 1974. From there is has all been downhill, now we are to embrace the electrique freque show, no way. Infinite resistance! ∞Ω

 

I completely agree with you except as regards daily drivers. Those need to be as functional and reliable as possible.  So I buy new, and accept total depreciation since I drive them until the junkyard gets them.
   My last one lasted 20 years, over 371,000 miles and went to the junkyard with a perfectly running V8 that used a quart between oil changes.  Cost me only $1000 in repairs over that whole time.   Had the original untouched engine, transmission starter injectors etc etc etc. 

 Rust was its weakness.  We have salt on our roads from Halloween until May some years. 

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