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CAinCA
CAinCA HalfDork
6/29/22 1:33 p.m.

I'm glad to see the EPA/DOJ taking a hard line with these guys.  I absolutely cannot stand the coal rolling bullE36 M3.

 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40450059/diesel-tuner-faces-year-in-prison-for-violating-the-clean-air-act/

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter)
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
6/29/22 1:43 p.m.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to talk about slippery slopes and whatnot, but I agree- enforcement on this stuff for the most flagrant offenders is long overdue.

Fupdiggity (Forum Supporter)
Fupdiggity (Forum Supporter) Reader
6/29/22 1:43 p.m.

It sounds like that was a long time coming. From the article:

  • notice of violation in 2015 from the EPA
  • 4.15 mil fine in 2017
  • attempt to skirt said fine by selling the company to Patriot Diagnostics (of course it's called that)

the year is for "conspiracy to violate the CAA (clean air act)" and tax evasion. He sold over 14,000 tunes and brought in revenue of around 10 mil.

Olemiss540
Olemiss540 HalfDork
6/29/22 1:50 p.m.

That's called poking a hungry polar bear with a pointy popsicle stick if I say so myself. 

Oh, and slippery slope and whatnot.

TJL (Forum Supporter)
TJL (Forum Supporter) Dork
6/29/22 2:00 p.m.

Its a slippery slope, with massive bright laser shooting signs that warn of the slippery slope, a fence around the slope, then still choosing to hit the slippery slope full speed.  
 

or, its like "accidentally" washing your car when you chose to grab a bucket, hose, brush, soap and head outside. 
 

sounds like he wanted to be a hero to the bro-dozer crowd. A martyr.  meh. Enjoy jail. 

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
6/29/22 2:39 p.m.

One thing to remind people, the diesel tuning group were the ones who ended the "look the other way" treatment enthusiasts were getting since the CAA started. Tuning to defeat emissions has always been illegal, but we got kind of a free pass with so many race cars actually racing. And it's easy to visually see a coal roller. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
6/29/22 2:40 p.m.

Was just checking up on Martin Winterkorn who's a much bigger offender, he's still free and was making an order of magnitude more per year than this guy made throughout his entire coal-roll-enabling career at one point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Winterkorn

Opti
Opti Dork
6/29/22 2:51 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

And an order of magnitude more pollution.

This Spartan guy obviously should have quit a long time ago when he was just out some money, and didnt so its hard to feel bad for him, but it also goes to show this new vendetta against the coal rollers will probably make no material difference in pollution.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
6/29/22 3:00 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:

Was just checking up on Martin Winterkorn who's a much bigger offender, he's still free and was making an order of magnitude more per year than this guy made throughout his entire coal-roll-enabling career at one point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Winterkorn

Let's be factual and clear here though, he was arrested and is a fugitive from the US. If he ever gets extradited he will be in prison for a lot longer than a year. His lieutenant is in a 7 year jail sentance right now. Germany has to finish whatever they are doing and then the EPA and DOJ will be after him.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
6/29/22 3:09 p.m.

I'm sure all the industrial pollution in this country is exponentially worse than anything this guy did but yea let's stick it to the man (the little one that is). 

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
6/29/22 3:16 p.m.
DirtyBird222 said:

I'm sure all the industrial pollution in this country is exponentially worse than anything this guy did but yea let's stick it to the man (the little one that is). 

I mean yes but also what this guy did is illegal for a reason and you mess with the bull enough you are eventually going to get the horns. So I don't feel sorry for him.

DjGreggieP
DjGreggieP HalfDork
6/29/22 3:40 p.m.
DirtyBird222 said:

I'm sure all the industrial pollution in this country is exponentially worse than anything this guy did but yea let's stick it to the man (the little one that is). 

Just because someone else did something "exponentially" worse than what this guy did, doesn't make it "okay" for him to have done it either. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/29/22 4:17 p.m.
DirtyBird222 said:

I'm sure all the industrial pollution in this country is exponentially worse than anything this guy did but yea let's stick it to the man (the little one that is). 

And if you ran a business trying to make the industrial pollution worse, I suspect you would not be treated well either. That's the thing here, not that he caused pollution by doing something useful but that he specifically bypassed/removed federally mandated existing controls. Over and over. With warnings and escalating penalties. For 7 years.

Note that the IRS is after him as well. That's not quite the sign of the poor innocent downtrodden small business.

CrustyRedXpress
CrustyRedXpress HalfDork
6/29/22 4:55 p.m.

From the article: 

The EPA had previously issued Spartan Diesel Technologies a violation notice for selling these tunes back in 2015, but the company never responded. That inaction was followed up by a $4.15 million fine in 2017, which Geouge allegedly tried to skirt by selling Spartan off to another company called Patriot Diagnostics. The EPA has argued that Geouge instead attempted to rebrand the business.

Every time I see a overtly alpha-male or jingoistic business name I just assume it's a tax scam of some kind. 

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago UberDork
6/29/22 5:14 p.m.

Spartan Diesel to the EPA: "come and take them!"

EPA: "are you sure?"

Spartan Diesel: "yes"

EPA: "uh, alright"

Spartan Diesel: "WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME?"

mechanicalmeanderings
mechanicalmeanderings New Reader
6/29/22 5:56 p.m.

I live in a state where only certain counties have emissions.  So there has always been a disregard toward emissions: illegal engine swap? Register at the farm outside of emissions. Illegal drive on your Evo or golf? See above.  this won't really move the needle in Colorado, there will still be cars that are not compliant with emissions laws.  

I think the coal rollers aren't the brightest group, but I think the same thing of the loud pipe saves lives group and several other groups of enthusiasts.  
 

I tend toward stick in the mud

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
6/29/22 6:01 p.m.

My general take on the guy is f--k him. Coal Rollers are dillweeds and anyone who aids and abets them are double-so.

But I have a question -  do those retunes really produce huge mileage gains like his supporters say? I'd think that  rolling coal and efficiency are two very different things.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/29/22 6:07 p.m.
mechanicalmeanderings said:

I live in a state where only certain counties have emissions.  So there has always been a disregard toward emissions: illegal engine swap? Register at the farm outside of emissions. Illegal drive on your Evo or golf? See above.  this won't really move the needle in Colorado, there will still be cars that are not compliant with emissions laws.  

I think the coal rollers aren't the brightest group, but I think the same thing of the loud pipe saves lives group and several other groups of enthusiasts.  
 

I tend toward stick in the mud

Even in Colorado, it's federally illegal to sell products that remove emissions controls. Note that the EPA can't go after individuals, it has to go after the vendors. Nobody's checking your specific car, but that doesn't make it okay to sell you the parts to remove the controls.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/29/22 6:08 p.m.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

My general take on the guy is f--k him. Coal Rollers are dillweeds and anyone who aids and abets them are double-so.

But I have a question -  do those retunes really produce huge mileage gains like his supporters say? I'd think that  rolling coal and efficiency are two very different things.

I suspect you're either getting better economy OR rolling coal, not both at the same time :) It's quite likely that the economy improvements are real but result in increased emissions - if the OEs could manage that mileage while meeting emissions regs or internal durability standards, you can bet they would.

kb58
kb58 SuperDork
6/29/22 6:10 p.m.
Fupdiggity (Forum Supporter) said:

  • ... Patriot Diagnostics (of course it's called that)

Ugh, no kidding. Anytime I see "freedom", "patriot", or "liberty", it's always seems to target a very predictable demographic. You know, facial hair, tats, real Americans, because damn it, we have a right to do whatever we want.

I'll sit down now.

(Apologies to facially haired tattooed real Americans that leave their emissions alone.)

dps214
dps214 Dork
6/29/22 6:37 p.m.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

My general take on the guy is f--k him. Coal Rollers are dillweeds and anyone who aids and abets them are double-so.

But I have a question -  do those retunes really produce huge mileage gains like his supporters say? I'd think that  rolling coal and efficiency are two very different things.

Probably yes. But the fuel economy tune and the coal rolling tune are definitely not the same tune.

mechanicalmeanderings
mechanicalmeanderings New Reader
6/29/22 7:11 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I agree 100%.  And I am not advocating for more governmental oversight. It is illegal in all 50 states to modify emissions, but how do states without any inspections or emissions expect to catch folks? 
at least in Colorado it is illegal to roll coal and people use to be turned in with video evidence.  
I agree with what you said all they can do is go after the suppliers.  

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
6/29/22 7:24 p.m.
kb58 said:
Fupdiggity (Forum Supporter) said:

  • ... Patriot Diagnostics (of course it's called that)

Ugh, no kidding. Anytime I see "freedom", "patriot", or "liberty", it's always seems to target a very predictable demographic. You know, facial hair, tats, real Americans, because damn it, we have a right to do whatever we want.

I'll sit down now.

(Apologies to facially haired tattooed real Americans that leave their emissions alone.)

Apology accepted.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
6/29/22 8:08 p.m.

In reply to mechanicalmeanderings :

That is up to each state to find the specific vehicles. It's EPA and CARBs jobs to get the companies that sell the tampering equipment. 
 

although CARB is also the state entity that gets the specific cars. 

jgrewe
jgrewe HalfDork
6/29/22 8:10 p.m.

This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.


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