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Opti
Opti Dork
6/29/22 8:43 p.m.

In reply to DjGreggieP :

Yah but if the goal is to reduce pollution maybe go after the biggest polluters.

dps214
dps214 Dork
6/29/22 8:54 p.m.
Opti said:

In reply to DjGreggieP :

Yah but if the goal is to reduce pollution maybe go after the biggest polluters.

No, go after the ones you can actually get. The other ones might be worse but they're likely not violating any laws. Going after them involves first changing laws to give something to go after. Where the "small" guys are very blatantly and publicly violating laws and have been for a long time and are easy to shut down. 

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter)
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
6/29/22 8:56 p.m.
Opti said:

In reply to DjGreggieP :

Yah but if the goal is to reduce pollution maybe go after the biggest polluters.

Industries that pollute are under the EPA's microscope 10x more than this.  I used to work in an iron foundry, the EPA inspections were brutal and often lead to plant shutdowns until we could fix some pollution issue.  And this was 30 years ago, I'm sure there is way more scrutiny now. A lot of the guys I knew from that job have since died of cancer or worse, the EPA was right. 

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle UltraDork
6/29/22 8:59 p.m.

zero

berkeleys

given

for this cat

 

 

 

 

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/29/22 9:01 p.m.
jgrewe said:

First they came for the Bro-Dozers

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Bro-Dozer.

Oh no. We are speaking out.  We're speaking out in support of the Feds doing exactly the right thing and shutting him down then hitting him hard when he doubles down on his douchness.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/29/22 9:29 p.m.
jgrewe said:

First they came for the Bro-Dozers

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Bro-Dozer.

Nah, we good.  It is because of them that the whole aftermarket industry is experiencing increased scrutiny. 

They are the equivalent of dingbats playing loud stereos and doing burnouts at cruise-ins and getting the place shut down.

 

If they wanted to "come for the brodozers" they would actually enforce lift laws and other things like that.  But coming for smoky diesels?   Fine.  Make owning a Diesel powered vehicle commercial use only, with all of the state inspections this entails.  This has the effect of making commercial users unaffected.  Makes their lives easier, as there would be a flood of trucks on the used market smiley

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/29/22 9:32 p.m.

The EPA does more than one thing at a time :) And "mobile emissions" was made a priority a couple of years ago. The EPA sets a number of areas that get increased attention because they have identified them as being significant problems. These are published as part of a National Compliance Initiative, and part of the 2020-23 NCI was stopping aftermarket defeat devices for motor vehicles.

Those who think "but what about..." can see that it's not the only area under current scrutiny. Hazardous waste? Check. Drinking water? Check. Industrial air pollution? Check. But those don't get the public all het up.
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/national-compliance-initiatives

They're not just doing this because they want to screw with the little guy, they determined that this was causing real problems based on actual data.

Summation
Full study

This guy who's going to jail? R&T says he sold 14k delete devices. If those were used for full deletes, that adds the NOx emissions of over 4 million extra trucks and hydrocarbon emissions of nearly 16 million extra.

That's why the EPA is doing what they're doing.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UltraDork
6/29/22 9:42 p.m.

No sympathy whatsoever; the guy chose to ignore multiple warnings.

As for the government; they are simply enforcing the law.

jgrewe
jgrewe HalfDork
6/29/22 9:45 p.m.

I think the whole rolling coal thing is absurd and poor use of modification expertise. Regardless of what I like, this guy is a small annoying fish in a small pond, even with all his sales. He deserved what he got when he didn't stop.

I see it as the Gov't Camel's nose further into our Motorsports tent. I don't like the coal rollers for putting us on the Fed's radar.

The last line will be something like this:

 

And then they came for internal combustion engines

and since most people drove Teslas

Nobody was left to fight for our right to race old cars at the track.

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy Dork
6/29/22 9:48 p.m.

In reply to jgrewe :

I'd normally agree with you. But the coal rollers were so in your face with both middle fingers in the air, that they harmed everyone. There really is no defending them, the best hope for the rest of the enthusiast community is to distance themselves as much as possible. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/29/22 10:30 p.m.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

My general take on the guy is f--k him. Coal Rollers are dillweeds and anyone who aids and abets them are double-so.

But I have a question -  do those retunes really produce huge mileage gains like his supporters say? I'd think that  rolling coal and efficiency are two very different things.

Let's be honest - most of these guys aren't doing it to gain a few MPGs in their 3-ton duallies with 40" M/Ts. I can just see a bunch of dudes with bro-trucks standing around with beers bragging about their fuel economy. Oh wait, no I can't. They're bragging about the Prius they smoked out in traffic 

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
6/29/22 10:41 p.m.

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Yes, but I'm sure there were plenty of people just after the perfromance/economy gains, but like everything, the bad actors screw up everyone's play.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/29/22 10:50 p.m.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Yes, but I'm sure there were plenty of people just after the perfromance/economy gains, but like everything, the bad actors screw up everyone's play.

In this case, the bad actors are everyone who bought them. If you want better MPGs, buy something other than a 3+ ton pickup. If you want better performance, buy something other than a 3+ ton pickup truck. If you actually need a giant diesel pickup for a practical reason, you've already paid a lot of money for it and can afford a few less mpgs in fuel costs lol. 

This is the same issue people with vintage cars (and antique plates) have to deal with. The antique plate laws (with no inspections/emissions) are meant for a relatively small enthusiast community - but then you have people tagging 1985 panel vans with antique plates to haul their ladders or landscaping stuff.....just to avoid having to get E36 M3ty vehicles inspected. This is why there's constant talk of revoking classic car plates and laws or amking them more restrictive - because of the cheaters. 

Regardless, berkeley the guy going to prison. He asked for it, he got it. 

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
6/29/22 11:51 p.m.
thatsnowinnebago said:

Spartan Diesel to the EPA: "come and take them!"

EPA: "are you sure?"

Spartan Diesel: "yes"

EPA: "uh, alright"

Spartan Diesel: "WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME?"

This is the best. Middle aged snowflake actio.  

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
6/29/22 11:53 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

 

 

This guy who's going to jail? R&T says he sold 14k delete devices. If those were used for full deletes, that adds the NOx emissions of over 4 million extra trucks and hydrocarbon emissions of nearly 16 million extra.

That's why the EPA is doing what they're doing.

But no step on snek. 

AClockworkGarage
AClockworkGarage Dork
6/30/22 3:06 a.m.

I'm in a lot of car groups and most of the posts lately seem to alternate between crying about the price of gas and crying about efficient vehicles.

Alternative energy cars aren't destroying our hobby, they're saving it.

Wangrods like this guy and his coal rolling don't tread on me tw@s are the ones that are going to bring the banhammer down on all of us.

Either we regulate ourselves or they will step in and do it for us.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn MegaDork
6/30/22 7:34 a.m.
Opti said:

In reply to DjGreggieP :

Yah but if the goal is to reduce pollution maybe go after the biggest polluters.

I'm sure the feds are going after many of the larger polluters but they just haven't gotten them yet...those guys tend to have better lawyers.

jimbob_racing
jimbob_racing SuperDork
6/30/22 7:44 a.m.

Will they be going after the individuals that bought the emission defeat devices and installed them on their trucks?

I feel like you have to do that at some point.

jmabarone
jmabarone Reader
6/30/22 8:16 a.m.

No sympathy for that guy but just wanted to remind you guys about this:
 

SEMA Challenges EPA's Motorsports Regulations in Court | Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA)

 

They are eyeing motorsport activities.  They know we are here and they have expressed interest in regulating modern cars in motorsports.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/30/22 8:45 a.m.
AClockworkGarage said:

I'm in a lot of car groups and most of the posts lately seem to alternate between crying about the price of gas and crying about efficient vehicles.

Alternative energy cars aren't destroying our hobby, they're saving it.

Wangrods like this guy and his coal rolling don't tread on me tw@s are the ones that are going to bring the banhammer down on all of us.

Either we regulate ourselves or they will step in and do it for us.

Yeah this I don't get. For years the oil industry has been associated with crony capitalism, with iffy federal land grants, with weird politics and rebates and tax breaks.

EVs become a thing, and all the sudden it's FREEDOM-gasoline, and by golly it's BE RIGHT AS MURICAN to buy $5/gallon gas and whine about it. Friggin Obama.

For the record, I probably vote a lot like some of these people. I also drive an EV. I also recognize that it's all a big slimy mess of regulations and kickbacks. We have to play in the pond, we can't just make our own.

Anyway this guy sounds much the same. How's that quote go? I want either less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it!

 

He got what he deserved and he had ample warning and chances to fix it.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/30/22 9:42 a.m.
jimbob_racing said:

Will they be going after the individuals that bought the emission defeat devices and installed them on their trucks?

I feel like you have to do that at some point.

I don't believe the EPA has the power to do that, but the states do. CARB is a state organization. 

It's a lot more effective to try to shut down the source, though. This guy sold 14k devices. So one dude versus 14k owners all over the country.

STM317
STM317 PowerDork
6/30/22 9:44 a.m.
jimbob_racing said:

Will they be going after the individuals that bought the emission defeat devices and installed them on their trucks?

I feel like you have to do that at some point.

That has to be done at the State level. In states with emissions testing, it's pretty easy but they're not likely to be an issue there anyway. In other states, there's really no mechanism to do that unless you're going to train and educate police officers or other gov employees to spot violators and penalize them.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/30/22 9:46 a.m.
jmabarone said:

No sympathy for that guy but just wanted to remind you guys about this:
 

SEMA Challenges EPA's Motorsports Regulations in Court | Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA)

 

They are eyeing motorsport activities.  They know we are here and they have expressed interest in regulating modern cars in motorsports.

Note that even SEMA and their overblown prose doesn't try to pretend that dual use vehicles should be exempt from emissions regulations. The RPM Act is for vehicles that have been turned into dedicated competition vehicles and will not be going back to the street. It's not going to help the weekend autocrosser  or the track day driver. Trailer queens only. If it goes through - and I suspect quite a few people at the EPA hope it does - then vendors will likely need proof that you are buying for such a car. Think of emissions-affecting performance parts as being prescription instead of over the counter. And of course, there are a bunch of things you can do to a car that don't involve emissions.

The EPA has a lot of flashlights. Heck, the lights are turned on in the room. 

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/30/22 9:49 a.m.

In reply to tuna55 :

I agree with Tuna!!  Better check in with hell to see if it's frosty down there!!

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/30/22 9:51 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Your comments on the competition exemption.  Do you think the EPA would have gone down this road if coal rolling hadn't started to become a thing?

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