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Lugnut
Lugnut HalfDork
6/17/10 9:49 p.m.

Parts are stupid cheap, they're pretty light, they can be made sufficiently powerful... Thoughts?

grimmelshanks
grimmelshanks Reader
6/17/10 10:22 p.m.

you could be proposing autoxing an f350, and around here youll get many yesses

neon4891
neon4891 SuperDork
6/17/10 10:32 p.m.
grimmelshanks wrote: you could be proposing autoxing an f350, and around here youll get many yesses

But it better be diesel.

As for the super beatle, a really good cage.

unevolved
unevolved Reader
6/17/10 10:32 p.m.
grimmelshanks wrote: you could be proposing autoxing an f350, and around here youll get many yesses

The RWD variants had coil front suspensions, and leaf rears. The coils could be easily lowered, and the rears would be a matter of custom leafs, which isn't altogether that difficult through a spring shop. May take a while, but it's doable. Some stiffer sways would have to be fabricated, but from what I can see they don't have excessive bends. Stock tires size is 285/70/18, so the Hoosier 285/30/18 A6 should fit rather nicely.

I say do it.

unevolved
unevolved Reader
6/17/10 11:04 p.m.

I think "legal" is another discussion entirely. I'd imagine it'd be real easy to convert it to a 4-link rear suspension, and if we're talking a 4WD variant, there are already 4-link conversions for the front axle.

friedgreencorrado
friedgreencorrado SuperDork
6/17/10 11:07 p.m.

I know the Midwest Council of Sports Car Clubs has a "Volkswagen Sedan" class that draws Beetles, but when I Google around, I can't find out whether or not anybody runs a Super Beetle in it. Even the ads for used race cars only show early ones.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3181915

NYG95GA
NYG95GA SuperDork
6/17/10 11:13 p.m.

I've seen a couple of Karman Ghias do pretty well and have a good time. The only real difference would be the center of gravity, which is likely higher on the bug. The rest of it's basically the same.

Lord knows you could source any part you need!

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
6/17/10 11:25 p.m.

I am surprised that Super Beetle is not more widely accepted the more performance model. It already shares many suspension parts with the 924/944.. notably it's front suspension design.

Of course.. many VDubbers never accepted the superbeetle in the first place

pres589
pres589 Reader
6/18/10 12:21 a.m.

In reply to mad_machine:

Last place I worked I got told a Super would never handle as well as a Type 1 on the original front torsion bars. I tried to say how it was finally a true independent front suspension and Mac struts seems much better a controlling things than the original setup. But he was adamant about this.

So, yeah, the traditionalists never seemed to accept these cars, and they're the ones I'd probably pick first for a daily driver.

mattbatson
mattbatson New Reader
6/18/10 6:33 a.m.

yes, they can make excellent track cars. they can be made to handle incredibly well, stiff chassis, and with more power can run with some awfully fast machinery I always loved the steering. few turns lock to lock and no power/light front end.

EricM
EricM Dork
6/18/10 6:46 a.m.

http://www.latebug.com/images/cars/german/latebuggl0017.jpg

"German Look"

Do it.

EricM
EricM Dork
6/18/10 6:59 a.m.

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/46921.jpg

http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/47308.jpg

Do it. Hell, I'm going to do it.

EricM
EricM Dork
6/18/10 7:01 a.m.

last one

http://www.veedubbing.co.uk/vwshows/spa2005/SPA17L.jpg

maroon92
maroon92 SuperDork
6/18/10 7:39 a.m.

wow! that last orange one has ME wanting to do it!

I think I would have to do WRX power though, I cannot stand the sound of a Typ 4.

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
6/18/10 9:52 a.m.

making me want another Superbeetle. that was my first (legal) car. Mine was 2.0 Type 4 engine powered with Duel Dells, a heaterbox free exaust, and a cam that made it idle like a harley.

I also butchered the sheetmetal under the rear bumper to fit the Type 4 cooling shroud.

it was a FAST bug.. but being 17 at the time, knew nothing about brakes or handling.. so it was a FAST and an EVIL handling bug that I eventually sold. I had sold it to an older gentleman who I found out after the fact, was giving it to his grandson.

The car lasted two months until it backed into something at high speed

Carson
Carson Dork
6/18/10 10:20 a.m.

Clarkson said: Here comes Hammond in his Volkswagen Beetle.
turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
6/18/10 1:14 p.m.

I have two sets of torsion bars, one from a 944 and another from a 924, that should stiffen the rear end pretty well.

Also have the stock 924 front and rear suspension (4x108mm/4.25" bolt pattern)

All of it would be free to whomever wanted it all.

Also, cip1.com has cheap HD torsion bars in their off-road section.

mattbatson
mattbatson New Reader
6/18/10 1:22 p.m.

on my auto x beetle, i had stock torsion bars out back and stock springs up front with sachs struts/shocks all around and a rear anti sway bar. car handled flat. really flat... these cars are really quite light and a lot more rigid than people think. I wouldnt go with to harsh a spring right out the gate... I also ran 205/50-15 yoko 008RS tires (back in 92) and drove it on the street outside of the auto x track on these tires, and it was VERY difficult to get the car to lose traction...front or back. Like glue I tell you

foxtrapper
foxtrapper SuperDork
6/18/10 1:43 p.m.

If by track car you mean an autox track car, I think it could do just fine. But if you mean a road race track, no. That body shape causes the car to become remarkably light and unstable as you aproach a mere 100 mph.

I tried it with mine, because I didn't believe the many well documented tests and warnings. Got my modified superbeetle up to about 100 mph. Noted that the steering was very light. Light like the front wheels weren't on the ground. Cranked the wheel side to side, noticing it wasn't having any effect on where I was going (good to be young and dumb when you do tests like this). Decided that since the car was now starting to head off the road (I'd been floored the whole time of course), I might now stomp on the brakes and try to put the front wheels back down on the pavement.

Yea, high speeds and beetles just don't mix well.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
6/18/10 2:10 p.m.

MUST...

FIND...

ACVW...

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
6/18/10 2:20 p.m.
Carson wrote:
Clarkson said: Here comes Hammond in his Volkswagen Beetle.

The video of this is amazing. That is one of the most lurid, arousing, YEEE-HAWWWWW!!!!ing slides i have ever seen.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
6/18/10 2:30 p.m.

It can be done

There is a guy in the Midwest that races with the SVRA in a Beetle. He always attends the BRIC (now KIC) and gets around the track well. Not sure how stable the car is over 100mph though.

Heck, my 73 Superbeetle was kinda frightening (in a good way) at 80!

mattbatson
mattbatson New Reader
6/18/10 2:31 p.m.
foxtrapper wrote: If by track car you mean an autox track car, I think it could do just fine. But if you mean a road race track, no. That body shape causes the car to become remarkably light and unstable as you aproach a mere 100 mph. I tried it with mine, because I didn't believe the many well documented tests and warnings. Got my modified superbeetle up to about 100 mph. Noted that the steering was very light. Light like the front wheels weren't on the ground. Cranked the wheel side to side, noticing it wasn't having any effect on where I was going (good to be young and dumb when you do tests like this). Decided that since the car was now starting to head off the road (I'd been floored the whole time of course), I might now stomp on the brakes and try to put the front wheels back down on the pavement. Yea, high speeds and beetles just don't mix well.

What engine did you have in your car? Where did you run it? What class/organization did you run with? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvowgUzWsRk&feature=related

foxtrapper
foxtrapper SuperDork
6/18/10 3:17 p.m.
mattbatson wrote: What engine did you have in your car? Where did you run it? What class/organization did you run with? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvowgUzWsRk&feature=related

You give me far too much credit. It was a street driven bug. The closest it came to being tracked was being refused by the local Vette club for an autocross. I tried flying it on interstate I-95, over by an airport.

I was in a local bug club when I had it. Does that count?

mattbatson
mattbatson New Reader
6/18/10 3:39 p.m.
foxtrapper wrote:
mattbatson wrote: What engine did you have in your car? Where did you run it? What class/organization did you run with? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvowgUzWsRk&feature=related
You give me far too much credit. It was a street driven bug. The closest it came to being tracked was being refused by the local Vette club for an autocross. I tried flying it on interstate I-95, over by an airport. I was in a local bug club when I had it. Does that count?

I think with not too much effort , they can be made to handle higher speeds. I would suspect a nice front air dam would go a long way... there is a lot of footage of road racing bugs out there, so there must be some way of keeping them on the ground I know there are lots of drag racing bugs doing well over 100 in the 1/4 too

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