https://kmiata.com/blogs/news/game-changer-the-new-k24z3-swap-is-here
K Miata has announced their new K24Z3 swap which uses the stock subframe and uses a much cheaper and more readily available engine in the Z3 and Z3 K24 motors
$4295 retail price... which is a $2000+ reduction over the cost of the K24A swap kit.
This is really cool!
ohhhhh.....I see this in my future very soon. Same HP as a lower PSI turbo without all of the complications and easier to manage the heat.
How is the wiring on something like this?
Oh man. That is really really tempting, as long as you don't have to deal with CA emissions.
bmw88rider said:ohhhhh.....I see this in my future very soon. Same HP as a lower PSI turbo without all of the complications and easier to manage the heat.
How is the wiring on something like this?
I saw their prototype car at Miatas Before the Gap at AMP a couple weeks ago. This setup is really legit. IIRC the wiring is definitely the biggest part of the job though, you basically have to replace the whole harness with a custom one.
I've seen the previous versions and that looked good. It was just out of the price I'd want to pay for that type of setup. Now take off $2K and also having the ability to recover some of my turbo costs since most of it is pretty new....Hmmm. I live at high altitude and heat management is a real thing. A K24 will make a heck of a lot less heat then a GT2554 setup and I don't have to cut up the hood for hood vents as well.
I'll be watching this closely.
I've already started collecting some turbo parts for our NA, but this is really interesting...
Screw the swap parts, I want that annular slave cylinder! Tired of cracked/broken clutch forks and pivot balls.
In reply to Knurled. :
I agree, the slave cylinder was the most interesting part and I see that getting used by a bunch of people in all sorts of applications.
iirc bisimoto's k awd wagovan runs a z3 block with a z7 head. bisi said he likes the integrated manifold for packaging reasons and claims it allows better spool.
MrChaos said:k awd wagovan
You have my attention.
Knurled. said:MrChaos said:k awd wagovan
You have my attention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAiOrV4Six8
tldw 1000hp, k24z3 block with z7 head, reverse rotation turbonetics 72mm turbo, CRV driveline, quaife sequential transmission
In reply to MrChaos :
You lost me at "1000hp".
bmw88rider said:ohhhhh.....I see this in my future very soon. Same HP as a lower PSI turbo without all of the complications and easier to manage the heat.
Keep in mind that the turbo will not be affected by altitude in the same way as a naturally aspirated swap. Not a big deal for those who live in the lowlands, but Coloradoans are different.
I like the stock subframe, that's a big step ahead. Tubular ones like their other one struggle to survive hard use and are quite flexible. Interesting new swap!
I agree Keith. I know how much Betty felt down on power when I had her here.
I'm going to run the turbo setup next year and see how I feel about it and how bad the heat management is for me. If I find it really bad, This does give me a really good option that will be a little down on power but very low maintenance.
My wrenching time is limited with my business travel so I'd rather have reliability over top HP. If nothing else, It's great to have options.
Keith Tanner said:bmw88rider said:ohhhhh.....I see this in my future very soon. Same HP as a lower PSI turbo without all of the complications and easier to manage the heat.
Keep in mind that the turbo will not be affected by altitude in the same way as a naturally aspirated swap. Not a big deal for those who live in the lowlands, but Coloradoans are different.
I like the stock subframe, that's a big step ahead. Tubular ones like their other one struggle to survive hard use and are quite flexible. Interesting new swap!
Really? Their tubular subframe is nearly identical to the ones FM uses for their V8 swaps. I believe they are made by the same engine conversion shop, probably on the same jig, using the same steel, welded by the same guys. If you don’t like swap, cool, but this argument is difficult to understand
Yes, really. They are made by the same shop. I’ve broken two or three of the V8 ones on my own car so my comments are based on actual direct experience. I know exactly how flexible and fragile they are. The flexibility is easy to demonstrate, the fragility can be seen by looking at the load paths under braking. We don’t sell them or use them anymore, but we do send people to V8R for them as there aren’t currently any other options. The K guys know about the problems.
Our ND swaps use a modified stock subframe that was re-engineered in-house.
I said I did like this swap, it’s a nice evolution.
I'm glad to see that this kit allows use of OEM Honda motor mounts, because a big gripe I've heard from owners of K24A-swapped cars is that they tend to rattle themselves to pieces because the mounts are so stiff. Actually saw it with one when I was hanging out with Slip Angle Media. The K24 Miata on hand kept shaking bolts out of the intake, and rattled the two-piece header apart by the end of the day. I've heard a lot of oiling issues with the K-swap as well.
NickD said:I'm glad to see that this kit allows use of OEM Honda motor mounts, because a big gripe I've heard from owners of K24A-swapped cars is that they tend to rattle themselves to pieces because the mounts are so stiff. Actually saw it with one when I was hanging out with Slip Angle Media. The K24 Miata on hand kept shaking bolts out of the intake, and rattled the two-piece header apart by the end of the day. I've heard a lot of oiling issues with the K-swap as well.
in a rwd application or a high hp fwd/awd application you need to have a baffled pan.
I wonder how that oil pan would interface with an e36 front subframe. Stupid S/M5x engines are really short short and the chassis is designed with that in mind. Then a ZF320 adapter, also from Kmiata behind. I'll keep dreaming.
MrChaos said:iirc bisimoto's k awd wagovan runs a z3 block with a z7 head. bisi said he likes the integrated manifold for packaging reasons and claims it allows better spool.
E36 M3, if it's good enough for Bisi, it's way more than good enough for us mere mortals. That guy is absolutely brilliant, and tends to have a lot of theories that run counter to what a lot of Honda guys think. And he's usually right. It's funny to think that all these people were bemoaning the single port head for being a bottleneck when it was introduced and here he is making 1000hp on it.
Keith Tanner said:Yes, really. They are made by the same shop. I’ve broken two or three of the V8 ones on my own car so my comments are based on actual direct experience. I know exactly how flexible and fragile they are. The flexibility is easy to demonstrate, the fragility can be seen by looking at the load paths under braking. We don’t sell them or use them anymore, but we do send people to V8R for them as there aren’t currently any other options. The K guys know about the problems.
Our ND swaps use a modified stock subframe that was re-engineered in-house.
I said I did like this swap, it’s a nice evolution.
Wow you just talked me out of a V8 swap. And yes I see on the website you no longer sell them but point to that vendor. I liie this swap. If I keep the Miata, maybe..... I can afford this and they sound hella awesome at high rpm.
If you are breaking k members, that’s not a route I want to pursue.
Not everyone breaks them. I'm looking at 7 years of continuous hard use with a dedicated competition and track car, and breaking stuff to improve the breed is part of what I do. You don't want to know how many redesigns of the exhaust bracket I've forced, for example. Most LS owners - and I'm assuming, most K swapped Miatas - have never trashed a subframe. All the ones I know of have seen hard track use. But it's not unknown, and the lack of rigidity is clear. Given the choice between a tubular subframe and a modified stock one and all else being equal, I'd probably go with the stock one. That's why I'm applauding this move.
But that's all else being equal. The choice of a four cylinder Honda engine and an eight cylinder GM engine goes a lot deeper than the subframe design. Make your choice based on the attributes of the end product, then figure out the best way to get there. There are things you can do to improve the V8R subframes if you use your brain and do a bit of work. I've built some braces for my car and added extra gussets, and I'm always looking for ways to improve it.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Gussets are always good. My dad is a good carpenter and gussets most everything. I have a folding 3x5 table made of wood which weighs about 20 lbs but can support 300 or more. It’s built largely of gusseted 1x2s and 1x3s oriented for max compressional rigidity.
Why pay so luch money for a product you have to re-engineer though?
Amd you’re right I don’t have enough time to be as hard on cars as you are; perks of the job I suppose.
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