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Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy UltraDork
2/5/24 8:05 p.m.

Experienced k swappers:

For your k24 engines, do you buy the jdm k24a that have hundreds of listings on eBay/fb marketplace, or do you go after the supposedly "better" k24a2 from the 06-08 usdm Acura TSX?

Sonic
Sonic UberDork
2/5/24 8:09 p.m.

I got a late US TSX motor, mostly because it was cheaper and on the way for a friend who was driving to me with a wagon.  If it has an RBB-2 or 3 mark on the head it should be the same thing from what I know.  

Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy UltraDork
2/5/24 8:42 p.m.

I've run into this info several different times in my internet research:

The 06-08 K24A2 is widely considered the best K series engine since, compared the K24A, K24A3, and pre 05 K24A2, it has stronger and lighter rods, updated pistons for more valve clearance, 1mm larger intake valves, improved intake cam, etc.

Andy Hollis
Andy Hollis
2/5/24 9:52 p.m.
Lof8 - Andy said:

I've run into this info several different times in my internet research:

The 06-08 K24A2 is widely considered the best K series engine since, compared the K24A, K24A3, and pre 05 K24A2, it has stronger and lighter rods, updated pistons for more valve clearance, 1mm larger intake valves, improved intake cam, etc.

Specifically ==> https://hondata.com/tech-06-tsx-changes

The challenge now is that low mileage USDM 06-08 K24A2 engines are like hen's teeth, while the JDM K24A, which is equivalent to a USDM 04-05 K24A2, are all low mileage.

It pretty much comes down to what you want to do with it.  I recently picked up a JDM K24A, pulled off the head, installed forged rods and hi-comp pistons, and have a K20A2 (PRB) head to go on it with some big cams.   If you're building it, doesn't matter. 

Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy UltraDork
2/6/24 6:08 a.m.

In reply to Andy Hollis :

Thanks. I had not been able to find confirmation of that info previously.  I don't plan to open up the engine, so it looks like it's worth my time to hunt down a late US k24a2. 

Andy Hollis
Andy Hollis
2/6/24 7:12 a.m.
Lof8 - Andy said:

In reply to Andy Hollis :

Thanks. I had not been able to find confirmation of that info previously.  I don't plan to open up the engine, so it looks like it's worth my time to hunt down a late US k24a2. 

I've had decent luck with LKQ...very reputable...priced according to mileage.  Other yards can be hit or miss.  If you're lucky, you can also find individuals that specialize in parting out TSX's and RSX's in your area.  Local FB pages for Honda and K-series can help id them.  There's a guy in Houston that I pay attention to.

Edit: I see you are in CenFL.  There's a guy there that posts on the K-series FB pages with various motors

Rodan
Rodan UltraDork
2/6/24 7:55 a.m.

Are there any good resources to help identify specific engines, so you know what you're looking at?

I found this:  Wikipedia K engine page, but you never know what you're getting with Wikipedia.  

I ended up with an RBB3 head JDM K24, which I believe to be the 197hp Accord engine, but I don't really know for certain.

Andy Hollis
Andy Hollis
2/6/24 1:12 p.m.
Rodan said:

Are there any good resources to help identify specific engines, so you know what you're looking at?

I found this:  Wikipedia K engine page, but you never know what you're getting with Wikipedia.  

I ended up with an RBB3 head JDM K24, which I believe to be the 197hp Accord engine, but I don't really know for certain.

For USDM motors, there should be a VIN plate.  You can run that.  In fact, often it will help id donor crash history and verify mileage.  Same with the trans.

For JDM, RBB on the head tells you it's a 3-lobe, which is what you want.  1-2-3 just says which year/revision, which is unimportant for those.  They are all essentially the same as USDM 04-05 TSX.

Rodan
Rodan UltraDork
2/6/24 2:57 p.m.

Thanks, Andy! yes

twowheeled
twowheeled Reader
2/7/24 1:03 a.m.

I'm not particularly attached to the k20 in my civic si but the plugs are looking nasty from oil consumption and have 160k on them. Can I throw autolites or the basic denso copper plug in?

Sonic
Sonic UberDork
2/7/24 7:44 a.m.

NGK, full stop.  The iridiums are only like $7 each, it isn't worth cheaping out for the small difference.  

kb58
kb58 UltraDork
2/7/24 10:53 a.m.
Andy Hollis said:

...For USDM motors, there should be a VIN plate.  You can run that.  In fact, often it will help id donor crash history and verify mileage.  Same with the trans...

When I built Midlana, having the VIN on the engine and transmission present was absolutely critical to getting it signed off during the police inspection. It would not have been licenseable (is that a word?) otherwise.

accordionfolder
accordionfolder UltraDork
2/7/24 12:03 p.m.

In reply to kb58 :

A good note, but keep in mind that's California SB100/out of state inspection specific (my "spec miata" had to have a VIN inspection when I lived in the bay since it was from WA) and varies greatly by who's doing the inspection, etc. In TN that's absolutely not a requirement depending on how you get it registered - my exocet had a JDM engine and was easy to get titled here. Best to check the kitcar tool kit and/or know your local laws about swaps.

Side note, I think the Midlana will be at NSS w/ NASA in two weeks, the guy you sold it to is over here. I'm excited to see it in person. 

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
2/7/24 12:11 p.m.

It's interesting how K series engines have become inexpensive due to their ubiquity.  Yet the other day when I was searching for a H22, they are relatively expensive!

Andy Hollis
Andy Hollis
2/7/24 6:52 p.m.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

It's interesting how K series engines have become inexpensive due to their ubiquity.  Yet the other day when I was searching for a H22, they are relatively expensive!

Don't even think about looking at B-series engines, then.  Off the charts.

Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy UltraDork
2/7/24 9:12 p.m.

K24, what's the hot ticket for oil pan/baffle and oil pump?  Are the stock components ok, in a Rwd configuration, if I don't plan it to be a track car?

rdcyclist
rdcyclist HalfDork
2/8/24 12:18 p.m.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

Here you go: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1448399636060302/

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
2/8/24 12:33 p.m.

In reply to rdcyclist :

Thank you!

Rodan
Rodan UltraDork
2/10/24 10:53 a.m.

Just to add a couple more things about JDM K24 engines...

In order to use most of the KPower swap parts in my Miata I had to switch to the USDM water pump housing and a USDM alternator.  I also just discovered that the JDM crank pulley is slightly larger than the USDM version.  This can be solved with a different belt, but I'll be switching to a USDM pulley to lower accessory rpms since it's a track car.

All of this adds up, and may negate any cost advantage of the JDM engines, though for me, availability and proximity were factors as well. 

Andy Hollis
Andy Hollis
2/10/24 12:29 p.m.
Lof8 - Andy said:

K24, what's the hot ticket for oil pan/baffle and oil pump?  Are the stock components ok, in a Rwd configuration, if I don't plan it to be a track car?

If you aren't planning to track or autocross it, you will likely be fine with stock components. 

Personally, I run the Clockwise Motion baffle insert which fits into an aluminum K20A2 pan.  Skunk2 ripped off that design and now sells an identical part, which put CW out of business.

For my KMiata, I just used their setup.

The issue is that oil sloshes up the chain case, away from the pickup.  In a FWD car, that's left-hand turns. In RWD, it's under heavy braking.  So street use for a RWD should be fine.

kb58
kb58 UltraDork
2/11/24 12:33 a.m.
Andy Hollis said:
... oil sloshes up the chain case, away from the pickup.  In a FWD car, that's right-hand turns. In RWD, it's under heavy braking.  So street use for a RWD should be fine.

While I agree about oil sloshing and being conveyed up into the head, are you sure about it happening in right-hand turns? I used a K24 in Midlana and the cam chain was on driver's right, so the oil control issue only happened in left turns. Are we talking about different engines?

Andy Hollis
Andy Hollis
2/11/24 5:17 a.m.
kb58 said:
Andy Hollis said:
... oil sloshes up the chain case, away from the pickup.  In a FWD car, that's left-hand turns. In RWD, it's under heavy braking.  So street use for a RWD should be fine.

While I agree about oil sloshing and being conveyed up into the head, are you sure about it happening in right-hand turns? I used a K24 in Midlana and the cam chain was on driver's right, so the oil control issue only happened in left turns. Are we talking about different engines?

Left-hand turns, not right.  See, I said "left". laugh

Story-time...

I learned about all of this the hard way.  In my original K-swap 88 Civic hatch, I had one of those expensive JDM K20A setups for almost a solid year with just the stock oiling components.  It would hiccup badly under load, often coming out of VTEC, in two off-camber left-handers at our local track.  I kept working on the tune, thinking that's what it was. 

Ran it that way for all of my first One Lap, plus most of the rest of the year before it finally scattered the motor in the most comprehensive way in one of those left-handers.  Nothing was salvageable except the cams. Cylinder liners were completely shredded. 

I still have a couple of those parts laying around as reminders.

 

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