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iansane
iansane HalfDork
6/9/21 10:06 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Unlike some I have no issue with legislation directed at something specific like this.  I don't agree with the 'use existing laws to stop them'  That can work, but the issue is when you force people to comb through existing laws to find ways this is illegal, or have to add law 1 to law 2 to law 3, you encourage people to find reasons to go after anything all the time.  Specifically make somethings so egregiously dangerous (vision, control, impact etc.) illegal without having to troll through multiple different laws.  I think performance enthusiasts should be all over helping get dangerous E36 M3 like this off the road.  To 99% of the population there is no difference between an autocross and two dozen of these rolling down the road.  People see this and form the opinion 'modified cars are dangerous' and you've just lumped every WRX with rims and an exhaust, as well as every Mustang with an X pipe and big tires into the same mental image as these things.  Take action to stop the egregious dangerous things like Carolina squat, Coal rolling, 20deg negative camber with 185 section times on 14" wheels off the road before you end up like many parts of Europe or Australia where you need to jump through massive hurdles to fit any modification to your car.  

They're already going to be adding law 1 to law 2 to law 3. This is just going to add law 4. If an officer is trying to punish you for breaking the law, they write up a few of them so that at least one should stick. Making a law to specifically ban this Carolina squat idea seems weird to me. Why not target the things about this fad that are dangers, the bumper height, headlight height/aiming, lack of visibility, etc instead of an ethereal concept of a fad that's hard to prosecute and opens up arguments of opinion on the judicial side.

I think the trend is dumb but unless they're out there mowing down school children and nuns, I think more laws aren't the way to stop it.

pirate
pirate HalfDork
6/9/21 12:47 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) : To 99% of the population there is no difference between an autocross and two dozen of these rolling down the road.  People see this and form the opinion 'modified cars are dangerous' and you've just lumped every WRX with rims and an exhaust, as well as every Mustang with an X pipe and big tires into the same mental image as these things. 
 

I think this is a true statement and the very reason laws should not be made that targets specific groups  of vehicles rather they be squatted, lifted, coal rollers, stanced, etc. Its a very slippery slope. There are already politicians that think internal combustion engine need to be eliminated, all cars electric within 15 years even eliminating airplanes. You don't have to have common sense or be smart to be a politician just be able to tell people what they want to hear and make it believable. There is also a segment (especially the younger generation) of the population that believe cars are evil and that no one should own one and some form of public ride share is the answer. So I don't really think it is a big reach that attempts to pass legislation against any and all forms of modifications to vehicles as well as eliminate any vehicle that can't (vintage, antique, hot rod, sports car) pass current environmental and safety standards will be made.

SEMA is currently trying to get the RPM bill reinstated. Basically a bill that makes it legal to modify engines for legalized forms of sanctioned racing this doesn't even deal with modifications to street driven cars. I contacted my senator to see if he supported it and got a very noncommittal "I will look into it". I'm not trying to run around saying " the sky is falling" only suggesting we should be mindful an careful what we ask for. Unfortunately the car hobby is not as large as it used to be and in my opinion shrinking rapidly and we are by far a minority when it comes to having a say. We need to unite rather then divide. I totally agree unsafe vehicles should be made safe or eliminated but we need to be careful what we ask for.  My opinion, your mileage may vary.

 

colinshark
colinshark New Reader
6/9/21 9:50 p.m.

The selective illegalization of this is racist. Same as the attention paid to certain drugs and not others.

No one cares about lifted pickups or flat bed tow trucks that can decapitate you with the rear of the bed jutting out. No one REALLY cares about road safety.

Even if similar laws affect everyone, we all know how the cops will choose to enforce things.

 

I'm pro Carolinia Squat, even though I just learned about it 5 minutes ago.

03Panther
03Panther UltraDork
6/9/21 9:57 p.m.

In reply to colinshark :

I understand the thoughts behind both sides, and personally only feel one side is correct. 
But to add the word racist to the discussion, from either side, is ludicrous, and would be quite silly, if it was not being used to be ugly. 

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy MegaDork
6/10/21 12:43 a.m.

This just popped up for sale in one of the NC for sale groups I'm a member of.

May be an image of road

This is what I'd consider an average example. 
 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa UberDork
6/10/21 12:48 a.m.
iansane said:

They're already going to be adding law 1 to law 2 to law 3. This is just going to add law 4. If an officer is trying to punish you for breaking the law, they write up a few of them so that at least one should stick. Making a law to specifically ban this Carolina squat idea seems weird to me. Why not target the things about this fad that are dangers, the bumper height, headlight height/aiming, lack of visibility, etc instead of an ethereal concept of a fad that's hard to prosecute and opens up arguments of opinion on the judicial side.

I think the trend is dumb but unless they're out there mowing down school children and nuns, I think more laws aren't the way to stop it.

The more laws there are on the books, the easier it is to prosecute someone.   And once a law is on the books they never remove them.

The average American unknowingly commits 3 felonies a day.  Once you're in the system, you're done.  

Decent reading on it. 

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy MegaDork
6/10/21 12:53 a.m.
colinshark said:

The selective illegalization of this is racist. 

I see equal numbers of white people and members BIPOC groups riding around in these. As another poster said, what they generally all seem have in common is that they're young. I'll add that they all apparentlyhave enough money to buy a pickup truck* and modify it in this fashion. 

I'll agree that enforcement probably won't be equal between those groups, but that has little to do with squatted trucks in particular and is an entirely different discussion that'll probably get the thread locked. 

*Pickups and SUVs that run and drive, regardless of age and cosmetic condition, are not inexpensive in the market where I live, even if they're generally crappy otherwise.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/10/21 11:59 a.m.

I hadn't considered any racial component in this.  When I hear Carolinas for some reason I assume white not black, have I made a mistake here? 

No matter what, it's dumb, it's dangerous and I'm all for getting these things off the road (as well as coal rollers and 45deg -Ve camber with mega stretched tires and other egregiously dangerous mods) before they act as the straw that brakes and camels back and all automotive mods get clamped down on.  As I said a few pages or so back. Let this E36 M3 continue and we end up like Germany or Australia where you need to pay for a government inspection and authorization if you want to add lowering springs and bigger wheels/tires to your daily, plus you better have told your insurance company and provided details or your SOL in any accident.

Freedom is the right to take responsibility for your life and actions, not a right to be a flaming A hole giving a middle finger to anyone not you that too many people think it is.  

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy Dork
6/10/21 2:25 p.m.

I'm in the camp of enforcing existing laws. No need to single out vehicle type for it's own law. You could nail one of these trucks on bumper height, headlight height/aiming, compromised visibility, mud flaps, etc. etc.. If they aren't enforcing those already, what makes anyone think they will enforce a Carolina Squat law? They fail to enforce very technical black or white height laws but a subjective squat law would be easier to enforce? It's a waste of time and the first step on a slippery slope of subjective laws. 
 

I'd love to see a GRM comparison test of oddly modified vehicles. Get a squatted truck, a lifted truck, an extreme cambered car, a donk- and run them against their stock counterparts in instrumented tests. It would be fun to see, and maybe there would be some surprises in the results. 

eastpark
eastpark HalfDork
6/10/21 3:43 p.m.
Brett_Murphy said:

This just popped up for sale in one of the NC for sale groups I'm a member of.

May be an image of road

This is what I'd consider an average example. 
 

Isn't this just a lift kit on the instalment plan? Next paycheque he'll be able to get the back lifted to match the front. 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
6/10/21 9:20 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

I hadn't considered any racial component in this.  When I hear Carolinas for some reason I assume white not black, have I made a mistake here? 

I see these owned/operated by both.  Not any race in particular.

I found it surprising when I first noticed it.

Toyman01 + Sized and
Toyman01 + Sized and MegaDork
6/10/21 9:43 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

I hadn't considered any racial component in this.  When I hear Carolinas for some reason I assume white not black, have I made a mistake here? 

The South is more racially diverse than most of the rest of the country. SC is about 27% black compared to a little over 12% for the country as a whole. 

 

03Panther
03Panther UltraDork
6/10/21 10:52 p.m.

And yet, STILL has no relation to if the rear squat is dangerous ( it is ) and if it should be against the law (it already is).  Race was only brought up by one obviously angry person, and it is possible they were just trying to start problems. 
Hey! I just saw what "race" looked like... maybe that meant "racing" instead of being a jerk? Nah, prolly not. 

M2Pilot
M2Pilot Dork
6/11/21 3:54 a.m.

In reply to colinshark :

As I said in a previous post, squatted trucks are all over the place in eastern NC.  I see several every day and I've never seen one being driven by a person of color.  There may be racist laws and racist law enforcement, but this ain't one of those times.

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ SuperDork
6/11/21 7:29 a.m.
GIRTHQUAKE said:

In reply to infinitenexus :

Thanks. Honestly, now that I've wrote that I've realized the same goes for coal-rolling; it's a big semi-political grandstand, performative public wankery against someone who's no longer in American politics and that's why I don't see that many anymore in the Midwest. The 'Carlina squat is probably just a variant of coal-rolling against Biden.

I was talking to my wife last night about how the government will soon mandate noise making devices on EV's for parking lot safety.  Won't it be ironic in a few years if the "don't tread on me" types defeat those devices and feel like they're giving the middle finger to the government by rolling around silent.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
6/11/21 7:35 a.m.
A 401 CJ said:
GIRTHQUAKE said:

In reply to infinitenexus :

Thanks. Honestly, now that I've wrote that I've realized the same goes for coal-rolling; it's a big semi-political grandstand, performative public wankery against someone who's no longer in American politics and that's why I don't see that many anymore in the Midwest. The 'Carlina squat is probably just a variant of coal-rolling against Biden.

I was talking to my wife last night about how the government will soon mandate noise making devices on EV's for parking lot safety.  Won't it be ironic in a few years if the "don't tread on me" types defeat those devices and feel like they're giving the middle finger to the government by rolling around silent.

Oh please let this happen.

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Dork
6/11/21 12:26 p.m.
A 401 CJ said:
GIRTHQUAKE said:

In reply to infinitenexus :

Thanks. Honestly, now that I've wrote that I've realized the same goes for coal-rolling; it's a big semi-political grandstand, performative public wankery against someone who's no longer in American politics and that's why I don't see that many anymore in the Midwest. The 'Carlina squat is probably just a variant of coal-rolling against Biden.

I was talking to my wife last night about how the government will soon mandate noise making devices on EV's for parking lot safety.  Won't it be ironic in a few years if the "don't tread on me" types defeat those devices and feel like they're giving the middle finger to the government by rolling around silent.

I could see it. At a minimum, they're already defeating those speakers to play other things Like this one that says 'Bruh'. But what the hell flags do we fly from our Libertarian Model S? A joke Gasden "NO STEP ON SNEK" is obvious (or maybe go oldschool with the White Cannon "Come and Take It"), but a weed flag is too on the nose for me.

Folgers
Folgers New Reader
6/11/21 8:54 p.m.

Personal responsibility. Period. 

Even drinking and driving. Do it if you want, accept the consequences if it goes bad. 

Up to the point where you hurt someone other than yourself go for it. 

I have seven seatbelt tickets from four counties. Never have I ever had a moving violation. Who has been harmed? I’m told the insurance people will keep rates low, because we passed that law. My insurance cost have never went down. Your mileage may very. 

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy Dork
6/11/21 9:58 p.m.

In reply to Folgers :

Trying to say this in a way that won't get me a timeout- your thought process leaves a lot to be desired. 
 

The whole point of why society forbids certain actions is because the very people who think that it is okay to participate in such actions are one ones who don't understand when "up to the point where you hurt someone" begins. Doing fine, doing fine, hits minivan head on. Doing great until the whole vehicular manslaughter thing. It's okay though, they accepted the consequences! Family in the minivan though, not so accepting of the consequences. 

car39
car39 Dork
6/12/21 9:36 a.m.

In reply to vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) :  

Does SC have a yearly state safety inspection? 

 

Inspections?  Heck we don't even need lights and registrations on trailers, if you don't leave the state.

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy MegaDork
6/12/21 11:30 p.m.

Another one popped up for sale in the same group.

May be an image of outdoors and text that says 'DRAKE'

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy MegaDork
6/13/21 12:03 a.m.

Hah, another one just popped up.



I suspect the ban is making a lot of the owners decide to move in another direction. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
6/13/21 7:46 a.m.

Why are some mixing politics and cars now?  I can't think of one time that bringing politics into anything made it better. 

Stupid people do stupid things, regardless of their politics.  The squat is actually pretty solid proof of this.  I'm sure looking at the tops of trees at night makes for great drives in the Smokey Mountains. 

 

eastpark
eastpark HalfDork
6/13/21 7:52 a.m.

Drive-in theatres are making a comeback here, they'd be excellent for that!

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) UberDork
6/13/21 11:35 a.m.

They've got knobby tires. Clearly this mod is an innocent one to improve offroad approach angles.....

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