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Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/1/13 6:42 p.m.

Bearing matches old one.

11s42k
11s42k New Reader
6/1/13 7:58 p.m.

In reply to Gearheadotaku:

Pre-88 was 2-piece rear mail seal crank/block. 88+ had 1-piece. Flywheels changed too. Sounds like you have a mismatch between the bell housing and the block and/or flywheel. The guys at McLeod would be able to help define the correct t/o bearing, but that's not helpful now...

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/1/13 10:35 p.m.

yes, I have a 1 piece type flywheel. Early ones shouldn't bolt up.

The 3rd gen crew says the flywheels interchange, bells and cranks are all the same. Defective clutch is their vote.

This blows. Got the clutch from Rock Auto and already threw out the box.

iceracer
iceracer UberDork
6/2/13 9:36 a.m.

How about the release lever pivot ?

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/2/13 10:23 a.m.

The bellhousing and trans came from a running car, so the pivot should be ok. Is there an adjustment I may have missed?

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/2/13 5:16 p.m.

tried a different clutch, didn't fix it

HappyAndy
HappyAndy SuperDork
6/2/13 8:11 p.m.

Is it possible that the clutch fork is upside down? Or could there be a shim or spacer inbetween the crank and flywheel?

This reminds me of when I replaced a fuel pump in one of my neighbors Firebird. By the time I was done, I knew exactly why they are called "F!" Bodies. It 3 tries to get it right.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/2/13 8:48 p.m.

No shim on the crank, though adding one has been suggested. At this point certainly the wrong choice. Fork is in correctly. Just spent some quality time with a GM catalog and confirmed all the parts should be correct.

Case of your favorite frosty beverages to whoever solves this issue!

HappyAndy
HappyAndy SuperDork
6/2/13 9:20 p.m.

I don't know much about GMs, but many engines have a tin plate inbetween the block and bell housing. Do you have one? Are you supposed to have one, and if so, are they the same plate for AT and MT cars?

You said that loosening the bell housing to engine bolts made it seem like it wants to work, so I'm trying think of where that missing space went.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/2/13 9:23 p.m.

GM doesn't put anything there. I could add washers, but doesn't seem like the 'right' fix.

warpedredneck
warpedredneck Reader
6/3/13 5:27 a.m.

Did you put the pedals in? Is it possible the clutch master push rod ended up too long? Seems like when you loosened the trans off the block it got better, I'm just wondering if there's something wrong or off at the other end holding the slave "out" a bit. Hope this helps

cutter67
cutter67 HalfDork
6/3/13 6:01 a.m.

i am trying to follow what you are saying but i am confused. but it seems like the clutch is half engaged am i right. i am not sure if the T5 trans come with different housings for the output shaft. if the housing is too long around the output shaft that would not let the throw out bearing come all the way back to fully disengage the clutch.

in the photo below the housing around the output shaft

fasted58
fasted58 PowerDork
6/3/13 7:23 a.m.

In reply to cutter67:

that would make sense

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/3/13 8:34 a.m.

Clutch stuck 1/2 way in, yes. This is with the hyd's unhooked, so pedals etc aren't a factor.

Seems like the sleeve the t/o bearing rides on is pushing on the clutch disc, or the bearing is trapped at the front of the trans and pushing on the clutch fingers. once bolted up fully, you cannot wiggle the clutch fork.

The input shaft and bearing sleeve only come in one size / type. trans came from a running car!

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 HalfDork
6/3/13 8:38 a.m.

no lie. ive seen the flywheel put in backwards.

also, confirm that you have a one piece block. may not be....

lastly, check the ID of your new throw out bearing. ive seen aftermarkets made just wrong enough to hang halfway on the shaft.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr HalfDork
6/3/13 9:52 a.m.

We had this same problem with our saginaw going on a 350 sbc.

We had to make a plate to "shim" out the trans from the engine.

I have no idea why. It was all stock parts. They SHOULD have worked.

Since it was a lemons car, we didn't care about how it looked. it just worked.

It sounds like the throwout bearing is wrong.

Rob R.

jstand
jstand Reader
6/3/13 9:42 p.m.
cutter67 wrote: i am trying to follow what you are saying but i am confused. but it seems like the clutch is half engaged am i right. i am not sure if the T5 trans come with different housings for the output shaft. if the housing is too long around the output shaft that would not let the throw out bearing come all the way back to fully disengage the clutch. in the photo below the housing around the output shaft

Is there a visible casting number on the input shaft bearing retainer? There appear to several flavors, so it is worth checking Cutter67's suggestion.

bearing retainer applications

Also, do you still have the clutch that came out? If possible I would check it for part numbers to see if it cross references to your application, or if the PO had used a different application to get a working set up.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/3/13 10:14 p.m.

yup, bearing retainer is my current suspect.

However, I tried putting the trans in without the T/O bearing in place, and it still wouldn't seat correctly though was closer. Measurements show the retainer is far to short to hit the disc. I'm assuming (and dangerously so) I just couldn't hit the pilot properly. Will try again tomorrow.

Don't have the old clutch to match parts.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/7/13 7:47 a.m.

FOUND THE PROBLEM!!!

Wrong flywheel. I finally pulled it off the car and went looking for part numbers on it.

When I bought the flywheel it was sold to me as "1 piece rear main flywheel for small block Chevy. Yes, it came out of a Camaro." Good 'ol Craigslist.....

I didn't have an old one to compare it to (remember, I'm doing an auto to manual conversion) and it looked like the one in the pictures I'd seen. That's why I was so convinced it was correct.

Too bad that Camaro was an LT1 car. The flywheels look nearly the same if viewed from directly above, and this is how they are pictured in the catalogs. From the side, the LT1 is taller. It bolts up fine and the clutch fits, but it sure doesn't work!

Thanks everyone for your ideas

Should have it together and burning rubber this weekend!

fasted58
fasted58 PowerDork
6/7/13 7:48 a.m.

congrats

EvanB
EvanB PowerDork
6/7/13 7:51 a.m.

Awesome!

wbjones
wbjones PowerDork
6/7/13 8:28 a.m.

finally .... glad you found the problem

2002maniac
2002maniac HalfDork
6/7/13 2:00 p.m.

How many times did you have the trans in and out?

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
6/7/13 2:02 p.m.

4 or 5. I'm pretty good at it now

yamaha
yamaha UberDork
6/7/13 2:30 p.m.

In reply to Gearheadotaku:

Oh hell, I didn't even think of that.......and I just helped convert an '85 vette to an LT-1 but kept the 4+3 trans in it.

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