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bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
7/11/11 11:17 a.m.

What can you tell me about P71's? I know the basics, but are some years better than others? What are their weaknesses? What should I look for in a P71? Thanks!

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/11/11 11:49 a.m.

Huh, what? Somebody rang?

P71's are the full-on high-pursuit cop car version of the Ford Crown Victoria. They have "P71" in the VIN code, hence the name. They get a ton of stuff different from other CV's (and even regular fleet/patrol cars, which are P72's) such as different shocks (including rear mounts), taller/stiffer springs, HD LCA's, bigger sway bars, HD brakes, HD trans cooler, HD radiator, power steering cooler, aluminum driveshaft, a different filter/intake setup, and different ECU's/tuning.

The 01-02 have the "Performance Improved" (PI) 4.6L V8, which is ~235HP or so. The 00's and earlier are saddled with a 175HP POS. The 03+'s have a completely new frame and suspension and come with good things like a rack & pinion. All have rear Watt's links and ABS.

As for getting one for your boys, I'd heartily NOT recommend it. V8 Torque + RWD + no TC = burnouts, donuts, and general hoonage. I'd put their butts in a 2000 Grand Marquis and let them languish in coddled old lady comfort. The regular Panther chassis cars (CV, GM, and Town Car) are just as reliable and bulletproof.

A word of warning though, they all have that menace to society 4.6L SOHC "Mod Motor". It will spit out spark plugs, taking out the aluminum threads in the head and requiring timesert repairs. Pull the plugs, clean the holes, and follow the factory install & torquing procedures. Make sure you re-torque every so often to prevent it. Other than that terd of a motor, they are generally reliable and cheap. My old on is in Clearwater, FL now and just rolled over 160K.

failboat
failboat Reader
7/11/11 12:13 p.m.

javelin did you mean the 97 and earlier had the 175hp motor?

the bodystyle changed in 98, i know my 99 grand marquis gs (single exhaust) is rated at 190 hp, the dual exhaust civilian models are rated at 200 hp. 275 ft lbs torque.

I think the 2004 cvpi's put out something like 250hp.

Bravenrace, I second considering a civilian model. look at 2003+. Like javelin pointed out, the suspension was revised and they got rid of the recirculating ball steering. The civilian cars are likely babied compared to a police cruiser. They have more features but are also usually priced higher. If you care about fuel economy (yea right, teenagers trying to get good mpg!) I think I get around 20mpg on mine around town, but on a recent weekend trip got 27 mpg on the highway pretty easily. thats with the 2.73 rear end (base model) Most CVPI/P71 parts bolt right on. I just added P71 rear springs to mine to firm up the ride and keep the rear end from sagging with a lot of stuff in the trunk.

Osterkraut
Osterkraut SuperDork
7/11/11 12:20 p.m.
Javelin wrote: As for getting one for your boys, I'd heartily NOT recommend it. V8 Torque + RWD + no TC = burnouts, donuts, and general hoonage. I'd put their butts in a 2000 Grand Marquis and let them languish in coddled old lady comfort. The regular Panther chassis cars (CV, GM, and Town Car) are just as reliable and bulletproof.

He's talking about P71s, not Marauders. I wouldn't call them hoon machines.

I think as a kid's car is finally a solid use for the P71, with cheapness, crash-worthiness, and acceptable reliability being their only redeeming features. Unless you get off on people thinking you're a cop. They've got that going for them as well.

dculberson
dculberson HalfDork
7/11/11 12:30 p.m.

And even a P71 hardly qualifies as a fast car nowadays. A v6 camry would smoke one in a drag race. Hell, a 4-cyl Camry might give it a run for the money. But yes, you can do awesome burnouts and donuts in one since they're RWD and lack traction control. Snow and foul weather driving might be more difficult than in the CRX - again due to RWD and lack of traction control.

ultraclyde
ultraclyde HalfDork
7/11/11 12:43 p.m.

They had a factory Watts Link? Huh, never knew they did that on anything....

BoostedBrandon
BoostedBrandon Reader
7/11/11 12:50 p.m.

Judging by the "scary incident" mentioned by the OP, I'm guessing he's looking for something safer than a tin can. In that case, hard to beat a panther chassis car, or a volvo.

failboat
failboat Reader
7/11/11 12:51 p.m.
dculberson wrote: Snow and foul weather driving might be more difficult than in the CRX - again due to RWD and lack of traction control.

This reminded me, the civilian versions do have traction control. It sucks in the snow though. I get around better with it turned off.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/11/11 1:06 p.m.
failboat wrote: javelin did you mean the 97 and earlier had the 175hp motor?

No, I mean 2000 and earlier. The Mustang got the PI motor in 99, the Crown Vic & Grand Ma didn't get it until 2001. So the 1998-2000 have the new body with the crappy motor. It's Ford's typical move (see 2010 4.6 Mustang, etc).

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/11/11 1:07 p.m.
ultraclyde wrote: They had a factory Watts Link? Huh, never knew they did that on anything....

SA/FB RX-7 had a factory Watt's link, too. Now you know!

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/11/11 1:11 p.m.
Osterkraut wrote:
Javelin wrote: As for getting one for your boys, I'd heartily NOT recommend it. V8 Torque + RWD + no TC = burnouts, donuts, and general hoonage. I'd put their butts in a 2000 Grand Marquis and let them languish in coddled old lady comfort. The regular Panther chassis cars (CV, GM, and Town Car) are just as reliable and bulletproof.
He's talking about P71s, not Marauders. I wouldn't call them hoon machines. I think as a kid's car is finally a solid use for the P71, with cheapness, crash-worthiness, and acceptable reliability being their only redeeming features. Unless you get off on people thinking you're a cop. They've got that going for them as well.

We're talking teenage boys here, not semi-responsible racing enthusiasts. Go back to 16 year old Oster and hand him the modern equivalent of the Blue's Mobile and see how long until he needs bail. Even when mine was dead stock it would lay rubber for a good city block .

And why does everybody ASSume that if you like P71's you must therefore want to look/act/be treated like a cop? I put giant freaking FR500's on mine and bought a Blue one just so that wouldn't happen.

tpwalsh
tpwalsh New Reader
7/11/11 1:34 p.m.

In reply to Javelin:

Huh, The nonPI 4.6L in the F150 made 215hp in 1997(have one in my truck) I'm surprised that they used an even lousier motor in the panthers.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/11/11 1:37 p.m.

Of course Ford used an even lousier version. They love saddling everything but the Mustang and F-150 with a lower power version.

belteshazzar
belteshazzar SuperDork
7/11/11 3:13 p.m.

you're incorrect javelin.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/11/11 3:28 p.m.
belteshazzar wrote: you're incorrect javelin.

On what? It's extremely well known that Ford over-rated the crap out of the 4.6 in the early years (Remember the 99 Cobra debacle and the resulting no 00 Cobra?). It's also proven fact that the Panther didn't receive the PI 4.6 until 2001.

So where's the incorrect?

Or is it the blanket statement that Ford pulls dumb stuff like releasing new cars with old engines (See 85 Mustang, 89 TBird, 94 Mustang, 98 Crown Vic, 10 Mustang, etc...) or that they saddle non-Mustangs and non-F150's with less powerful versions (see no 5.0HO in the TBird/Cougar until 91, see no PI 4.6 in the Panther until 01, etc).

Or do you just like picking on people?

Conquest351
Conquest351 Reader
7/11/11 3:51 p.m.

I've got a 2000 P71 and when we did the intake swap I looked at the intake runners on the heads and they're the PI port shape. I could be wrong, but I've seen enough of them to know the difference. Now, that being said, if it is a Non-PI motor, I see a head swap in my future to bring that compression up a point.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/11/11 4:04 p.m.

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/crown-victoria/2001/#fullreview

"The Crown Victoria was never a slouch in terms of acceleration (as you would hope, seeing as how so many police departments use it), and this year Ford bumped the output of the 4.6-liter V8 engine to 220 horsepower and 265 pound-feet of torque."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine

"In 1999, the F-Series 5.4 L 2V and the Mustang 4.6 L 2V received upgrades which included cylinder heads with improved port and combustion chamber designs, a more aggressive cam profile, and improved intake manifolds. This upgrade was known as the PI (Performance Improved) package. In 2001, the F150 and Crown Victoria 4.6 Ls received the PI package."

Conquest351
Conquest351 Reader
7/11/11 4:16 p.m.

Looks like a head swap is in my future!!

Osterkraut
Osterkraut SuperDork
7/11/11 4:47 p.m.
Javelin wrote: We're talking teenage boys here, not semi-responsible racing enthusiasts. Go back to 16 year old Oster and hand him the modern equivalent of the Blue's Mobile and see how long until he needs bail. Even when mine was dead stock it would lay rubber for a good city block . And why does everybody ASSume that if you like P71's you must therefore want to look/act/be treated like a cop? I put giant freaking FR500's on mine and bought a Blue one just so that wouldn't happen.

16 year old Oster had an RX-7... No bail required! Also you must have some short-ass city blocks. PNW thing?

Note that I said that cop-boners COULD be a reason to buy a P71. Not THE reason. But the way you're getting all butt-hurt, I see I found a nerve!

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
7/11/11 7:11 p.m.

I hate driving P71s. They make me want to punch myself in the nuts. I wouldn't want to give them as a car to a 16 year old either. Zero steering feeling, Suspension made out of pillows and a V8 is just asking for trouble. I would suggest something new but still a smaller car (newer Civic, Sentra, Neon, etc)

cghstang
cghstang HalfDork
7/11/11 7:37 p.m.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

You have to adopt a different attitude when driving the panther platform.

I have owned two of the 80's vintage. They're more like trucks or maybe a pontoon boat. You crack open the vent window, stretch your right arm out on the bench seatback and enjoy the floaty ride. There's a reason they call them boats. Leisurely motoring is the name of the game.

Also, my first car as a 16 year old was an '86 Chrysler Fifth Avenue and I turned out okay

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/11/11 7:47 p.m.
Osterkraut wrote:
Javelin wrote: We're talking teenage boys here, not semi-responsible racing enthusiasts. Go back to 16 year old Oster and hand him the modern equivalent of the Blue's Mobile and see how long until he needs bail. Even when mine was dead stock it would lay rubber for a good city block . And why does everybody ASSume that if you like P71's you must therefore want to look/act/be treated like a cop? I put giant freaking FR500's on mine and bought a Blue one just so that wouldn't happen.
16 year old Oster had an RX-7... No bail required! Also you must have some short-ass city blocks. PNW thing? Note that I said that cop-boners COULD be a reason to buy a P71. Not THE reason. But the way you're getting all butt-hurt, I see I found a nerve!

Butt-hurt? What are you, 17? No, it just gets old to hear every damn time, kinda like "are you gay?" jokes when you buy a Miata. But hey, whatever.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
7/12/11 6:01 a.m.

Thanks for the P71 tips, guys. Not so much for the parenting tips. The fact is, my kids are responsible, and they've also been trained well. They've driven vehicles much faster than a P71. Hell, they're CRX is much faster than a P71, and handles infinitely better - That's not an issue. Please just stick to telling me what I need to know about buying one of these and let me worry about the parenting, K?

N Sperlo
N Sperlo HalfDork
7/12/11 6:30 a.m.

Had a 99 p71. As for the p71 vs p72, all the police vics are p71. P72 is the regular model with fleet options. Taxis. P73 is civilian model. P74 is lx. I know the 99 has the lower stance. After police were tearing exhaust off, they added taller stronger springs for the 00 model.

The plugs really are a pain in the ass. I put Flowmasters on and the K&N kit. Very happy with the results.

Edit: Don't bother going older than 99. 91-97 are basically p 73 with a few extras if I remember correctly.

Osterkraut
Osterkraut SuperDork
7/12/11 7:07 a.m.
Javelin wrote:
Osterkraut wrote:
Javelin wrote: We're talking teenage boys here, not semi-responsible racing enthusiasts. Go back to 16 year old Oster and hand him the modern equivalent of the Blue's Mobile and see how long until he needs bail. Even when mine was dead stock it would lay rubber for a good city block . And why does everybody ASSume that if you like P71's you must therefore want to look/act/be treated like a cop? I put giant freaking FR500's on mine and bought a Blue one just so that wouldn't happen.
16 year old Oster had an RX-7... No bail required! Also you must have some short-ass city blocks. PNW thing? Note that I said that cop-boners COULD be a reason to buy a P71. Not THE reason. But the way you're getting all butt-hurt, I see I found a nerve!
Butt-hurt? What are you, 17? No, it just gets old to hear every damn time, kinda like "are you gay?" jokes when you buy a Miata. But hey, whatever.

Hey 17 is better than the 16 you said I was last post! One more and I'll be able to vote and buy porn.

Maybe you're getting your panties in a wad over gay Miata jokes because you are? With that 'stache you'd be a total bear.

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