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bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
7/12/11 7:08 a.m.

In reply to Osterkraut:

You're not helping.

N Sperlo
N Sperlo HalfDork
7/12/11 7:15 a.m.

In reply to bravenrace:

Lost cause.

failboat
failboat Reader
7/12/11 8:16 a.m.

ill just leave this here

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bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
7/12/11 8:20 a.m.

In reply to failboat:

You're not helping either! But in a kinda better way...

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/12/11 8:31 a.m.
bravenrace wrote: Thanks for the P71 tips, guys. Not so much for the parenting tips. The fact is, my kids are responsible, and they've also been trained well. They've driven vehicles much faster than a P71. Hell, they're CRX is much faster than a P71, and handles infinitely better - That's not an issue. Please just stick to telling me what I need to know about buying one of these and let me worry about the parenting, K?

Sorry man, your original post made it sound like it was their fault and/or almost wrapped a CRX around a tree. If they weren't at fault that information would have been useful. And now that I know that, 2003+ P71 is what you're after. The hydroformed frame, rack-and-pinion steering, and superior brakes (they were stolen by Ford for the 05 Mustang) are well worth the extra cash. The spark plug issue still applies though. Also, since impact protection is a concern, look underneath and make sure it's got the crash kit on it. That's a plastic cover over the gas tank and the rear axle designed to help the cars survive being rear-ended at 70+ while parked on the side of the road and not catch on fire. Most should have it installed (P71's anyways).

Duke
Duke SuperDork
7/12/11 8:32 a.m.
Osterkraut wrote:
Javelin wrote:
Osterkraut wrote:
Javelin wrote: We're talking teenage boys here, not semi-responsible racing enthusiasts. Go back to 16 year old Oster and hand him the modern equivalent of the Blue's Mobile and see how long until he needs bail. Even when mine was dead stock it would lay rubber for a good city block . And why does everybody ASSume that if you like P71's you must therefore want to look/act/be treated like a cop? I put giant freaking FR500's on mine and bought a Blue one just so that wouldn't happen.
16 year old Oster had an RX-7... No bail required! Also you must have some short-ass city blocks. PNW thing? Note that I said that cop-boners COULD be a reason to buy a P71. Not THE reason. But the way you're getting all butt-hurt, I see I found a nerve!
Butt-hurt? What are you, 17? No, it just gets old to hear every damn time, kinda like "are you gay?" jokes when you buy a Miata. But hey, whatever.
Hey 17 is better than the 16 you said I was last post! One more and I'll be able to vote and buy porn. Maybe you're getting your panties in a wad over gay Miata jokes because you are? With that 'stache you'd be a total bear.

Wow. Is this E36 M3 really necessary here? Didn't think so. KTHXBYE.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
7/12/11 8:53 a.m.

In reply to Javelin:

No problem. I probably should have left that part out or gone into more detail. The actual scare didn't involve my boys, I just thought it did for a short time, and as a result it's made me re-think what they should be driving. The P71 came to mind because I know they are reliable, well built, have air bags etc.. and are relatively cheap to buy. I didn't know they didn't have traction control, but I'm not sure that will be a big deal in our situation. Now, the spark plug issue. How big a deal is it? Do these things spit spark plugs for no apparent reason? Can something be done to prevent it? A little more detail please?

RossD
RossD SuperDork
7/12/11 9:00 a.m.

Here's a 'simple' fix: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1006_trick_flow_cylinder_head_upgrade_for_2_valve_46_l_ford_modular_engines/index.html

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Web Manager
7/12/11 9:18 a.m.

Simma down now kids. The car discussion (when not bookended by insults and thin-skinned complaints) is good, please keep it on subject or at least friendly and take the righteous indignation and/or stick pokery to another venue.

Private messages work well for that sort of thing I'm told.

Back on topic After looking pretty hard, I struggled to find a P71 that my wife would tolerate for under $2k. Couple that with marginal fuel economy and I couldn't make it work in my life. I got the much more comfortable Benzenwagen 300te (now also sold) instead.

That said, for a young person, maybe the unloved early models with the weak motor are just the ticket? (Get it, ticket? It's a cop car joke...)

BoostedBrandon
BoostedBrandon Reader
7/12/11 9:25 a.m.

Ya know, in all the time I've been here (which is not too long) that is the worst fight I've ever seen here, everybody doesn't play so nice on most other forums. Its really awesome here guys.

N Sperlo
N Sperlo HalfDork
7/12/11 9:26 a.m.

In reply to Tom Heath:

I would expect a bill of around 4 sacks before you get to the good ones. You will drop 12 for a brand new one that was in an accident before delivery. If Theres no damage, I would jump on it.

As for the jokes, you need some time to work on those before they hit the public, k?

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/12/11 9:26 a.m.

In reply to bravenrace:

The spark plug issue was a design/engineering fault on the Mod Motor. Ford's accountants decided that any more than 5 threads wasn't necessary, so that's what they got. Ford became aware of the issue in the late 90's/early 00's yet continues to make the 2V 5.4 and 4.6 heads like that to this day (though the 4V, 3V, and new 5.0/6.2 heads are all fixed).

Mine didn't pop the first one until ~145K, but then it popped the second nearly right after. Since then the plugs have been checked and re-torqued to factory specs every 5K (with the oil change) and the other 6 haven't had any further issues. It's pretty much the only common mechanical fault on the car, so be aware of it, but I wouldn't be afraid of it.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
7/12/11 9:26 a.m.
RossD wrote: Here's a 'simple' fix: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1006_trick_flow_cylinder_head_upgrade_for_2_valve_46_l_ford_modular_engines/index.html

Thanks. Is there any less expensive fix?

failboat
failboat Reader
7/12/11 9:28 a.m.

Oh I have a panther durability story. Brother in law accidentally backed mine into his aunt's Honda Pilot, rear side door.

Just a scuff on my grand marquis bumper, which looks like it would probably buff out when I get around to it. According to my insurance payout......cost to repair Pilot was approaching $6k. Heh nobody borrows my cars anymore.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/12/11 9:29 a.m.
N Sperlo wrote: In reply to Tom Heath: I would expect a bill of around 4 sacks before you get to the good ones. You will drop 12 for a brand new one that was in an accident before delivery. If Theres no damage, I would jump on it. As for the jokes, you need some time to work on those before they hit the public, k?

For $4000 I'd expect a perfect one. I paid $2450 for my 2001 in 2006 with 120K miles, no accidents, and the full service records from the Oregon State Police (Highway Patrol). There were 5-6 available at that time with the same history/miles/color/price. I'd imagine snagging a decent 03+ in 2011 for the same price should be relatively easy, no?

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/12/11 9:32 a.m.
bravenrace wrote:
RossD wrote: Here's a 'simple' fix: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1006_trick_flow_cylinder_head_upgrade_for_2_valve_46_l_ford_modular_engines/index.html
Thanks. Is there any less expensive fix?

It cost me ~ $350 per plug to get repaired by a shop with the actual tools (I bought the $30 kit from Rock Auto, and all it is is a different spark plug and some lame thread cutter, don't waste your time). They even warrantied the work and everything. It's cheaper to get done before it happens (as when it does it will break the COP, which is pricey).

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
7/12/11 9:35 a.m.

In reply to Javelin:

$350 per plug? Are you kidding? So you paid $2800 to get them done? I think the Trick Flow heads are about $2100.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/12/11 9:40 a.m.

In reply to bravenrace:

No, no. no! I only had to have 2 done, not all 8! You can see why the potential expense helped lead to me decision to sell the car though.

Honestly, if you buy or rent the actual tools and time sert kits from Ford you could do it yourself a lot cheaper, but I wanted the guarantee that if they berkleyed up I'd get a new head. And again, the coil was ~$100 of that IIRC.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
7/12/11 9:42 a.m.

Okay, but how common is this problem and what causes it?

belteshazzar
belteshazzar SuperDork
7/12/11 10:03 a.m.

among my circle of friends with P71's, of which there are 5, one of us has blown a total of one plug over the past 3 years.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
7/12/11 10:29 a.m.

Does this not happen on other Fords with the 4.6? What exactly is the defect that causes this?

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/12/11 10:49 a.m.
bravenrace wrote: Does this not happen on other Fords with the 4.6? What exactly is the defect that causes this?

There's not enough threads in the heads. There are literally only 5 threads for each plug to hold onto. It's a design defect. Ford has at least 1 TSB out on it, but don't expect them to cover it. As I said, my car made it 145K miles before popping one, and has since gone another 15K without popping another.

Change the plugs as soon as you buy it, follow the factory procedures (anti-seize, torque spec), and re-torque at every oil change (5K miles) and it probably won't ever be an issue.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
7/12/11 10:50 a.m.

Oh and, yes, it happens on every 2V Ford. So the 4.6 and 5.4 F-150's, the 4.6 Crown Vics/Grand Marquis/Town Cars, the 4.6 Mustangs, the 4.6 and 5.4 E-150's, etc, etc. If it has a 2V V8, it has this issue.

belteshazzar
belteshazzar SuperDork
7/12/11 10:51 a.m.

Javelin, if you want to add this to your database of knowledge:

98-02 P71 brakes are BIGGER than +03.

Thanks.

belteshazzar
belteshazzar SuperDork
7/12/11 10:59 a.m.
Javelin wrote: Of course Ford used an even lousier version. They love saddling everything but the Mustang and F-150 with a lower power version.

aside from the well documented delay of introducing the P.I. version 4.6 in the panthers, the part numbers are the same between the mustang f-150 and panthers in regards to the engines and their parts.

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