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M030
M030 Dork
2/28/15 1:16 p.m.

http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/227/articles/porsche-innodrive#.VPIQbi5cqec

I've loved Porsches for as long as I can remember, and since 1993, I've never been without one. Their stated mission of maximum driver involvement over maximum speed has always been their most alluring quality.

We (Porsche enthusiasts) put up with their withdrawl from top-level sports car racing when they didn't return to LeMans in 1999, we forgave them the Cayenne because it was supposed to fund more exciting sports car projects. They made good on that promise with cars like the GT3 and the Cayman. We forgave the Rubbermaid-like interior plastics of the first generation Boxsters because the cars were so good to drive. Don't forget that while Boxsters had such crappy interiors and all Porsches had M96 engines with failure-prone intermediate shaft bearings and rear main seals, Porsche not only didn't issue a recall, but they bragged about how profitable they were.

Then they made the GT3 automatic-only

I could forgive them all of that, but this is egregious:

WTF

The thought of an autonomous, driver-less Porsche makes me sure Ferdinand is spinning in his grave and makes me hope that VW sells Porsche to Zastava or the Chinese (they've earned a marraige to Geely or SsangYong).

oN THE Bright side, all pre-VW era Porsches (that still run) will only go up in value in the future

sesto elemento
sesto elemento Dork
2/28/15 1:24 p.m.

Time for a lotus

oldtin
oldtin UberDork
2/28/15 1:34 p.m.

Hmm, there's irony - take a legendary Porsche race/test driver's car and turn it into a self-driving robot.

M030
M030 Dork
2/28/15 1:38 p.m.

In reply to sesto elemento:

Spoken for truth!

sesto elemento
sesto elemento Dork
2/28/15 3:51 p.m.

I mean this with no disrespect and hopefully won't hurt anyone's feelings, I know a lot of people love their porsches but….

Every time I go to an event at a race venue, there are so many 911s that I can't get excited to see them anymore. It's the camry or accord of the performance world without the reliability. It just seems to me that there are so many interesting cars out there that have excellent performance, beautiful styling, good reliability and comfortable interiors that the only reason I can think of to see 400 911s at a race event is that people are not thinking outside the box. I know that the porsche brand has a big community and lots of events, so there are some good reasons , I just think there are other cars and brands that are often overlooked.

novaderrik
novaderrik UltimaDork
2/28/15 3:59 p.m.

am i wrong in remembering that Jeremy Clarkson used to always bring up Hitler whenever they were talking about a 911 just to get Hammond and all the Porsche fanboys riled up?

Driven5
Driven5 Dork
2/28/15 4:37 p.m.
M030 wrote: Ferdinand is spinning in his grave

Isn't it obvious why they're doing this?...They're looking at the bigger picture and trying to solve the world's energy crisis.

NOHOME
NOHOME UltraDork
2/28/15 5:06 p.m.

I think that the broader message here is that autonomous cars are here NOW, not in some science fiction future.

I was talking about this with one of the programer wonks at work, and he assured me that the worst computer on the planet, even when infected with a virus, could do a better job of driving than the average human. The caveat is that the human needs to be removed from the equation before the computer can do its job. Driving is easy, don't hit E36 M3. Stay in your designated 3D coordinate. A computer can do that as long as non-predictable humans are not driving on their roads.

Myself, I am looking forward to the day that the stoplight/4way stop/roundabout gets replaced with a multiplexed intersection. Picture two steams of traffic headed towards each other at an intersection and never having to slow down. Same with lane merges, both streams adjust speed to maintain posted limits. Its certainly not rocket surgery. Just replace the concept of a data byte with "CAR" and treat it accordingly.

The good news is that with such controls, speed limits could go way up with fewer accidents.

It is the way of the future.

Jerry From LA
Jerry From LA Dork
2/28/15 5:40 p.m.
M030 wrote: Ferdinand is spinning in his grave

No. Wankel is spinning in his grave.

M030
M030 Dork
2/28/15 5:42 p.m.

In reply to Jerry From LA:

Nope, Wankel bounces around in his peanut shaped grave. They dig him up and replace the apex seals every couple of years

novaderrik
novaderrik UltimaDork
2/28/15 6:00 p.m.
M030 wrote: In reply to Jerry From LA: Nope, Wankel bounces around in his peanut shaped grave. They dig him up and replace the apex seals every couple of years

and he makes a hell of a racket while he spins.

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed SuperDork
2/28/15 6:09 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: I think that the broader message here is that autonomous cars are here NOW, not in some science fiction future. I was talking about this with one of the programer wonks at work, and he assured me that the worst computer on the planet, even when infected with a virus, could do a better job of driving than the average human. The caveat is that the human needs to be removed from the equation before the computer can do its job. Driving is easy, don't hit E36 M3. Stay in your designated 3D coordinate. A computer can do that as long as non-predictable humans are not driving on their roads. Myself, I am looking forward to the day that the stoplight/4way stop/roundabout gets replaced with a multiplexed intersection. Picture two steams of traffic headed towards each other at an intersection and never having to slow down. Same with lane merges, both streams adjust speed to maintain posted limits. Its certainly not rocket surgery. Just replace the concept of a data byte with "CAR" and treat it accordingly. The good news is that with such controls, speed limits could go way up with fewer accidents. It is the way of the future.

^^^This exactly. It's a different world now. I am always amazed at how many of my friends teenage children, males and females aren't interested in even getting their driver's licenses anymore. They just don't want to drive. They want someone else to drive them around so they can sit there and talk and text and play their games. One friend's 19 year old son shows no desire to drive at all preferring to be driven everywhere.

Me and my GF went to an upscale restaurant a few weeks back that had valet only parking. We get out of the car and start heading into the restaurant. As I wait for my car to pull away the driver motions for his friends to come over. Still the car doesn't move. Thinking something is wrong I walk back to the car. Four valet drivers and not one of them can drive a manual transmission. They all apologized as I parked it. Frankly, I was happier that way anyway.

So ya, I think we will continue to see more automation as time progresses. Bad for auto enthusiasts (all of us) but as mentioned, removing humans from the equations, accidents will likely go down, speeds can go up, less congestion and hopefully lower insurance rates for the rest of us. Times are crazy.

M030
M030 Dork
2/28/15 6:58 p.m.

berkeley automated cars and berkeley computers. To quote my friend Sesto Elemento, "they might be able to make a robot that screws better than me, but I still want to do it myself."

novaderrik
novaderrik UltimaDork
2/28/15 7:06 p.m.
Feedyurhed wrote:
NOHOME wrote: I think that the broader message here is that autonomous cars are here NOW, not in some science fiction future. I was talking about this with one of the programer wonks at work, and he assured me that the worst computer on the planet, even when infected with a virus, could do a better job of driving than the average human. The caveat is that the human needs to be removed from the equation before the computer can do its job. Driving is easy, don't hit E36 M3. Stay in your designated 3D coordinate. A computer can do that as long as non-predictable humans are not driving on their roads. Myself, I am looking forward to the day that the stoplight/4way stop/roundabout gets replaced with a multiplexed intersection. Picture two steams of traffic headed towards each other at an intersection and never having to slow down. Same with lane merges, both streams adjust speed to maintain posted limits. Its certainly not rocket surgery. Just replace the concept of a data byte with "CAR" and treat it accordingly. The good news is that with such controls, speed limits could go way up with fewer accidents. It is the way of the future.
^^^This exactly. It's a different world now. I am always amazed at how many of my friends teenage children, males and females aren't interested in even getting their driver's licenses anymore. They just don't want to drive. They want someone else to drive them around so they can sit there and talk and text and play their games. One friend's 19 year old son shows no desire to drive at all preferring to be driven everywhere. Me and my GF went to an upscale restaurant a few weeks back that had valet only parking. We get out of the car and start heading into the restaurant. As I wait for my car to pull away the driver motions for his friends to come over. Still the car doesn't move. Thinking something is wrong I walk back to the car. Four valet drivers and not one of them can drive a manual transmission. They all apologized as I parked it. Frankly, I was happier that way anyway. So ya, I think we will continue to see more automation as time progresses. Bad for auto enthusiasts (all of us) but as mentioned, removing humans from the equations, accidents will likely go down, speeds can go up, less congestion and hopefully lower insurance rates for the rest of us. Times are crazy.

the solution to lazy teenagers that don't want to drive themselves anywhere or do anything productive is to not give them rides or do anything for them. screw the robot cars..

SnowMongoose
SnowMongoose Dork
2/28/15 7:08 p.m.

In reply to Feedyurhed:

I... I... I can't imagine hiring someone to drive a wide assortment of cars and NOT requiring them to be able to drive stick.

petegossett
petegossett PowerDork
2/28/15 7:08 p.m.

In reply to M030:

For fun absolutely! For the daily-grind or family-vacation, no thanks.

I don't see this realistically working outside of metropolitan areas or major roadways though, possibly ever. There are so many "roads" I've seen on maps that in reality are barely two tire ruts through a farmer's field, bridges no longer in existence without any signs until you get there, potholes as big as a car requiring you to drive through the ditch around them, etc. that I don't think an autonomous car - which would be programmed to operate in the 99.99% of situations it's likely to encounter - could deal with rural and remote areas?

bastomatic
bastomatic SuperDork
2/28/15 7:27 p.m.

In reply to petegossett:

Heck, they couldn't operate within Detroit. Autonomous cars would require major infrastructure upgrades. Most of our roads have poorly, if any, painted lane markers, potholes aplenty, and are covered in snow and salt for about 1/3 the year. Not sure how a driverless car will handle not being able to see accurately where the lanes are.

But hey, if they solve it, sign me up. I'll keep the fun car for the weekend and relax on my commute. Hopefully get to work faster, too.

sesto elemento
sesto elemento Dork
2/28/15 7:55 p.m.

I can't believe what I'm reading, I love to drive. Every drive, If your commute sucks, pick a different route. Berk a world where I don't drive my car, berk the people who wan to implement that plan. You don't like driving, ride the train or bus.

M030
M030 Dork
2/28/15 9:23 p.m.

In reply to sesto elemento:

amen, brother!

Nick_Comstock
Nick_Comstock PowerDork
2/28/15 9:41 p.m.
petegossett wrote: In reply to M030: For *fun* absolutely! For the *daily-grind* or *family-vacation*, no thanks. I don't see this realistically working outside of metropolitan areas or major roadways though, possibly ever. There are so many "roads" I've seen on maps that in reality are barely two tire ruts through a farmer's field, bridges no longer in existence without any signs until you get there, potholes as big as a car requiring you to drive through the ditch around them, etc. that I don't think an autonomous car - which would be programmed to operate in the 99.99% of situations it's likely to encounter - could deal with rural and remote areas?

Easily doable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV51BGIzkwU

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
2/28/15 9:52 p.m.
Jerry From LA wrote:
M030 wrote: Ferdinand is spinning in his grave
No. Wankel is spinning in his grave.

http://instantrimshot.com

Jerry, do you come here right from the opec mic nights, or do you posts on your phone while waiting forever because you got hosed in the order lottery?

neon4891
neon4891 UltimaDork
2/28/15 10:01 p.m.

What I took away from the article was that this particular system was less "autonomous" and more of radar guided cruise turned up to 11 for the sake of efficiency and saftey. You still did all the steering bits.

Original article said: Porsche, like many automakers, has been working on autonomous programs for many years. But unlike most of the other manufacturers, who appear obsessed with developing a vehicle that cuts the driver completely out of the picture, the German automaker has been focusing on improving safety and fuel economy while leaving the most important part of the driving experience—steering—untouched.
aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
2/28/15 10:29 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: I think that the broader message here is that autonomous cars are here NOW, not in some science fiction future... ....It is the way of the future.

Certainly. But from what I read of the article the car is not autonomous, it does everything but steer! Which is just bizarre.

M030
M030 Dork
5/3/15 1:12 p.m.

Porsche Innodrive still makes me sad, but the new Porsche Cayman GT4 offsets it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-ZQmkxBwk&sns=em

JAhmed
JAhmed Reader
5/3/15 3:59 p.m.
M030 wrote: Porsche Innodrive still makes me sad, but the new Porsche Cayman GT4 offsets it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-ZQmkxBwk&sns=em

The Cayman GT4 haunts my dreams. Innodrive hangs out in my nightmares.

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