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frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
10/11/21 1:12 p.m.

In reply to APEowner :

Thank you for posting a picture of the sleeves.  Clearly a case of a picture is worth a thousand words. 
   To address some of your comments.  First understand the reason  for the no deck block is to allow die casting techniques  to be used to ensure a denser block assembly over a sand casting.  There simply aren't any voids or air pockets in the block. 
     The step on the sleeve is to prevent localized pressure from causing the bowing you mentioned. That and 54 studs holding the head to the block.  
Some of those studs go clear into near the bottom of the block casting to use a belt and suspenders approach to block rigidity. 
 The sleeves wind up being exactly flush with the deck of the block. So the head which completely surrounds the sleeve would have to flex in order to allow bowing.  
     Since the top of the sleeve  is completely surrounded by water, cooling is easily achieved. 
    A 1/4 inch stroke requires  a .250 taller pin height.  So a .030 skim cut would be required. Plus a combustion chamber  created in the piston deck.  I've got a spare 13-1 piston  at home to measure how many cc's I need  to remove to form a proper hemispherical combustion chamber while retaining enough ledge to provide the required squish area.  If the deck thickness is adequate to allow that to be safely achieved then I don't need to spend $200 per piston to go racing. 
      The Cosworth pistons are even more expensive then that.  While they are lighter and stronger perhaps I can save most of that $4000 cost?   
Here  is a picture of the heads I want to use.  As you can see as soon as the valve opens flow is completely unrestricted  until it hits the wall of the sleeve. Since the port directs the prime flow along the wall of the sleeve that allows peak flow. 

modlite9
modlite9 New Reader
10/11/21 6:07 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

https://www.jegs.com/i/Clevite/695/2243448WR/10002/-1

 

Those are 93mm for under $50 each but I'm not sure they'd work for you.

 

Edt: Nevermind, huge compression height. 

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
10/11/21 6:40 p.m.
frenchyd said:
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

.080" na would be totally fine, boost I would sleeve it

Does Alfa use a iron sleeve in their aluminum block ? 

No clue but if its not coated, it's sleeved, no way around that. 

2002maniac
2002maniac Dork
10/12/21 8:02 a.m.

V12s are cool and all, but has anyone suggested an LS1 swap? wink

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
10/12/21 9:09 a.m.
matthewmcl said:

If you have spare blocks and/or spare blocks are easy and cheap to come by, risk it. It is only worth the trouble of making a dozen sleeves and custom machining the block if the block itself is worth the effort.

The sleeves push out easily. So it's just chuck them in a lathe and open them up to the desired size. No need for custom sleeves.
 Unless you want to go bigger than 96 mm or something.  Then you need not only make custom sleeves but also bore out the block.  

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
10/12/21 9:15 a.m.
2002maniac said:

V12s are cool and all, but has anyone suggested an LS1 swap? wink

Hi, have we met?  Please tell me what a LS1  with an aluminum block,aluminum heads, water pump, carburetors  etc would cost  installed?  
    Now tell me where I could race it wheel to wheel  with Corvettes, Mustangs Cobra's, Trans Am cars etc. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/12/21 10:09 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

you mean you're actually going to put something on track this decade?

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
10/12/21 10:16 a.m.

Have you been following the progress on the XJS?  We are currently building the rollcage.  Will use the existing engine to sort out handling etc. while building a real motor  over the winter. 
Currently looking for a suitable piston to modify. ( bore around 3.625 or 93-94 mm )  Chevy V6 3.6 closest but would wind up with a 8-1 compression ratio. 

Driven5
Driven5 UltraDork
10/12/21 1:14 p.m.

What pin height and pin diameter ranges are acceptable?

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
10/12/21 3:59 p.m.

I'm away from my books I'll need to get back to you. 
    Pin height can 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
10/12/21 8:40 p.m.

Ideal is pin height of 1.310 with a dish of 29cc's 

 pin diameter of .9375   
  Anything over I can mill down to.  Anything smaller I can bore up to. 
      Slightly smaller I can sleeve  the wrist pin up to.  I might have to spend some hours finding the right bushings 

    This is an Aries I had built for my XKE V12. I actually had 50 made to get the price per affordable. The problem is is heavy. 480 grams. The Cosworth is more than 100 grams lighter and the bowl is more of a shallow dish  (same 29 cc's )     Or 13-1 compression ratio. 

Driven5
Driven5 UltraDork
10/12/21 10:10 p.m.

This is about the closest starting point I am seeing via the Summit search...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-1743h-std

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
10/12/21 10:16 p.m.
Driven5 said:

Something like this?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-1743h-std

Wow! That's workable!   

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
10/13/21 9:47 p.m.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction  Driven 5 

     

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
10/14/21 11:25 a.m.

When I did a big bore DOHC conversion on an MGB block, I sacrificially bored one block to the size I wanted and had it tested. It broke through to water when honed, but as you are running liners, and there is essentially no pressure to speak of down low in the cylinder, you should be OK out to a fairly large rebore (I went from 80.26  mm to 83.5 mm).  You could also have a block sonic tested and get similar results to be sure.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
10/14/21 1:03 p.m.

Experience  teaches me I don't need to worry about the block failing. The block isn't sand cast, it's die cast. There are no hollows or voids possible.  The sleeves seem to be completely machined and when I took a swing at them with  the sledge hammer they dented rather than broke. I'd swear they are a forging rather than a casting but that doesn't make sense. ( the second swing I missed center and it flew up and hit my shin bone. I was limping for weeks ) 

  Look at the picture APEowner posted at the bottom of page one. 

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