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infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
6/22/21 9:44 a.m.

Prices for crypto are declining pretty sharply at the moment, and it looks like some people are starting to panic sell their graphics cards.  Prices haven't gone down much yet (not at all for the 30-series) but I'm seeing a lot more for sale.  Maybe fortune will smile upon us and we'll see the price of graphics cards go back to somewhat normal in the near future.

LifeIsStout
LifeIsStout Reader
6/22/21 11:54 a.m.

I haven't ventured into the mining aspect of this, but I do own some crypto (BTC, ETH and a few others).  One thing I am doing is keeping them over at Blockfi.  This is a way to make some interest on your crypto.  I will also say, this is not a canoe, just to stave that off.

Basically blockfi is a loan company that creates loans based on crypto. You do have to assume a higher level of risk, because they aren't fdic insured like a bank would be, but the benefit is that you get better returns (for example, my BTC earns me 5% apy, and i can choose to get that back in BTC, or other coins including one that's basically US dollar equivalent).  They make their money on the loans, so they need reserves to loan from, that's why they pay higher interest rates. I use coinbase to buy my crypto, and then transfer to blockfi, but now you can buy directly from blockfi saving some fees.  Now, if blockfi went under, you wouldn't see any of your money back (again, no fdic insurance), but they have been around long enough and have weathered other dips in the market that I trust the company.

So that ETH that you are mining, instead of it just sitting in a wallet not doing anything, put it someplace where you can earn some interest is what I figured. I've been using them for about a year now with no issue, and I recently moved money back out of there to a savings account, so you can remove money any time you want.

I won't put it here, but there is a referral program, if you want it you can send me a message and I will pop you the code (each of us gets 10$ in BTC for deposits of 100$ or more, so its not a big thing)

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Dork
6/22/21 12:38 p.m.

In reply to infinitenexus :

God, you had a 2060 layin' around? Lucky! Most I had I think was a 590 from my last machine, but that's long been given to a friend with no machine at all.

Most of the spare machines I have laying around are laptops my family and I fixed for people that decided to just give them to us, so most of them likely aren't good fodder for a cheap pork miner. Though I think a recent screw-up on a Newegg order might give us a current-gen AMD mobo, and like you're posting about Monero and Etherium are still within feasible reach for the common person; and might be even more, when/if ETH goes Proof of Stake.

Man, I need to find something other than Kraken. When DOGE did the thing, Kraken became absurdly slow and their 2FA works, but neither allow to be re-named so I frequently lock out mixing up which one I do first.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
6/22/21 1:01 p.m.

A terrible waste of processing power and electricity, to pointlessly reverse hashes just to prove you wasted processing power so you can get some Internet funny-money that's no better than traditional payment methods to most anyone who's up to any good.

I do run distributed scientific processing on my computers, in World Community Grid I'm in the top 10k individual users in run time and the top 7k in points, I also do processing for Folding@Home sometimes. If you're not mining for profit this is a much more beneficial use of your computer's processing power.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
6/23/21 10:32 a.m.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

The RTX 2060 was pretty much the only thing I paid for on my primary computer.  Before that I was using an old GTX 580 that was okay but an electricity hog and not really that powerful.  I dabble in some video editing and game occasionally so I wanted a better card, and I only got the 2060 because I managed to get it at roughly MSRP at Micro Center.  The rest of the computer was mostly free old parts from work.  I'm big on doing things as cheaply as possible!

AMD processors are best for mining Monero.  I believe the Ryzen 5 3600 currently has the best ROI of any newer processor on the market.  I've seen them used for as low as $140.  I wouldn't spend that much money to buy a processor to mine Monero, but if you already have something similar then it's worth a shot.  CPU mining is generally pretty slow - with mining Monero, the more cores the better (assuming you have sufficient cache, 2mb per core).  I currently have two old desktops and two old laptops mining Monero and that Ryzen 5 by itself has a higher hash rate than all my old junk.  If I ever find the right deal I might splurge and pick up a cheap used one - or an older Ryzen 7, those can mine well.  I believe all AMD CPUs can be overclocked as well, which helps a lot with mining.  Laptops are better than nothing, and they're usually very power efficient, but the hash rates are low.  I use two because I already have them.

I'm exploring other altcoins in my free time as well.  Ethereum is the most profitable right now, although you need a 5GB card minimum to mine it (which is expensive).  Ravencoin is often considered the #2 choice, and I believe can be mined with a 4GB card.  Difficulties are going down, since crypto prices are going down and people are quitting, so it's a bit easier to mine right now.  I'm mining Vertcoin with a 2GB card.  It's not a ton of money but it's on free equipment, which is the most important part for me.  

Plus, me spending my free time working with mining equipment and learning Linux keeps me from spending money on my trashheap MK2 Jetta, so it's really a win-win situation.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
6/23/21 10:53 a.m.
PMRacing said:

So if I read above correctly, mining is getting paid to solve complex algorithms. What is the purpose of solving the algorithms and for who?

The algorithms check and validate the cryptocurrency transactions. So mining is essentially a case of the payment processing system automatically generating new tokens and using the tokens to pay the payment processing infrastructure.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/23/21 11:05 a.m.
MadScientistMatt said:
PMRacing said:

So if I read above correctly, mining is getting paid to solve complex algorithms. What is the purpose of solving the algorithms and for who?

The algorithms check and validate the cryptocurrency transactions. So mining is essentially a case of the payment processing system automatically generating new tokens and using the tokens to pay the payment processing infrastructure.

Having a bunch of distributed computers all hooked to your network and running processes that the computer owners don't really understand but yet are all controlled by you under the guise of 'transaction processing' sounds like a great way to get a GIANT amount of computing power at your command for FREE. 

Sounds like a great way to launch a whole host of nasty crap. Want to overrun a server with data requests? Just have all your 'transaction processors' ask for data simultaneously. Want to brute force a math problem that normally isn't reversible so that you can crack an encryption key? Get zillions of graphics cards around the globe working different pieces of the problem at the same time. Etc, etc, etc. All you have to do is invent a 'coin' and get people to 'process the transactions for a chance at being a millionaire'.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
6/23/21 1:43 p.m.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:
MadScientistMatt said:
PMRacing said:

So if I read above correctly, mining is getting paid to solve complex algorithms. What is the purpose of solving the algorithms and for who?

The algorithms check and validate the cryptocurrency transactions. So mining is essentially a case of the payment processing system automatically generating new tokens and using the tokens to pay the payment processing infrastructure.

Having a bunch of distributed computers all hooked to your network and running processes that the computer owners don't really understand but yet are all controlled by you under the guise of 'transaction processing' sounds like a great way to get a GIANT amount of computing power at your command for FREE. 

Sounds like a great way to launch a whole host of nasty crap. Want to overrun a server with data requests? Just have all your 'transaction processors' ask for data simultaneously. Want to brute force a math problem that normally isn't reversible so that you can crack an encryption key? Get zillions of graphics cards around the globe working different pieces of the problem at the same time. Etc, etc, etc. All you have to do is invent a 'coin' and get people to 'process the transactions for a chance at being a millionaire'.

Something like this might be possible with Ethereum but not with most other cryptocurrencies - in Bitcoin you're just trying to reverse a hash by guessing, and this is the process through which the transactions are processed/settled. Nobody can control which hash will need to be reversed.

Toyman01 + Sized and
Toyman01 + Sized and MegaDork
6/23/21 9:08 p.m.

I'm not even sure this thread is written in English. 

Toyman01 + Sized and
Toyman01 + Sized and MegaDork
6/24/21 7:23 a.m.

OK, I did some reading. As I understand it, you get paid in a digital coin to use your processing power to verify transactions for the digital coin and to create new digital coin by using your computer to guess a number? 

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
6/24/21 8:44 a.m.

It's funny to read tech articles from 2 years ago where they mention the price of a GTX 1660 Super starting at $230.  These days you're lucky to find one under $500.  Prices are starting to come down a bit but I don't think they'll ever be the same.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
6/24/21 8:45 a.m.

In reply to Toyman01 + Sized and :

As I understand it, that's a basic gist of it, yeah.  Then you either hold that digital coin in hopes that it'll increase, or trade it for USD and enjoy your profits.

SVreX (Forum Supporter)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/24/21 9:40 a.m.
infinitenexus said:

In reply to Toyman01 + Sized and :

As I understand it, that's a basic gist of it, yeah.  Then you either hold that digital coin in hopes that it'll increase, or trade it for USD and enjoy your profits or losses.

Fixed it for you

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
6/24/21 9:58 a.m.

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

If I make $75 (after electricity)  from mining Ethereum and Ethereum goes down some and my $75 is now worth $60 and I sell it for $60 USD, that's still $60 in profit.  

If someone is buying crypto then just like any other investment there will be profits and losses, absolutely, but it would be very hard for me to actually lose money mining, especially because I'm spending basically nothing putting this equipment together.  My profits would have to be less than the cost of electricity, which would be pretty difficult to attain with modern equipment.  I can't even think of a situation where I would earn less in Ethereum than my electricity cost, since when the price goes down the difficulty tends to go down with it.  And even if something happened where mining Ethereum was suddenly worthless, I would just switch to a different coin to mine.  It's not really as much of a gamble as many people seem to think it is (unless you go out and just drop thousands of dollars on a mining setup without knowing what you're doing, then it's a big gamble.)

spudz76
spudz76 New Reader
6/24/21 10:05 a.m.

It seems like some people on here have the mindset where dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars on a junk car is perfectly fine, but spending money on something that makes money every month is the worst idea ever.  Maybe if you glued a Miata emblem on the side of a mining computer they'd relax some.

SVreX (Forum Supporter)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/24/21 10:12 a.m.

You said in your initial post in this thread that you were currently making $57 per month after electricity.   Now you say "IF I make $75 per month (after electricity)..."

I realize to you that's just (+-) $18. To me it's a data point that varies from one post to another by 31%.  
 

And it's certainly not $60 in profit.  It's $60 in gross revenue (after electricity) that doesn't account for the capital investment or the labor.

I don't do math like that. 

I'm really glad you enjoy this. I encourage you to continue. I have lots of hobbies I enjoy too that I don't worry about the returns on. 
 

 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) Dork
6/24/21 10:13 a.m.
spudz76 said:

It seems like some people on here have the mindset where dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars on a junk car is perfectly fine, but spending money on something that makes money every month is the worst idea ever.  Maybe if you glued a Miata emblem on the side of a mining computer they'd relax some.

I am more concerned about dropping too many hundreds of dollars on a video card I need for my home computer. Miata emblem optional. 

I think you guys should stop mining bitcoins and use the money to buy NVIDIA stock. Mrs. Snowdoggie made a bunch on that one. 

Toyman01 + Sized and
Toyman01 + Sized and MegaDork
6/24/21 10:13 a.m.

I find it interesting because I have a fairly capable gaming computer that spends 95% of its time just sitting doing nothing. The startup costs look like they would be pretty much zero other than some time investment to get the software set up. 

How much bandwidth does this use?

What software are you using? 

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
6/24/21 10:30 a.m.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

You said in your initial post in this thread that you were currently making $57 per month after electricity.   Now you say "IF I make $75 per month (after electricity)..."

I realize to you that's just (+-) $18. To me it's a data point that varies from one post to another by 31%.  
 

And it's certainly not $60 in profit.  It's $60 in gross revenue (after electricity) that doesn't account for the capital investment or the labor.

I don't do math like that. 

I'm really glad you enjoy this. I encourage you to continue. I have lots of hobbies I enjoy too that I don't worry about the returns on. 
 

I just said $75 for simple math to show my point, but I believe my point still stands.  It would be nearly impossible for me to lose money doing this.  Profits will go up and down, certainly.  But they's still be profits!

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
6/24/21 10:40 a.m.
Toyman01 + Sized and said:

I find it interesting because I have a fairly capable gaming computer that spends 95% of its time just sitting doing nothing. The startup costs look like they would be pretty much zero other than some time investment to get the software set up. 

How much bandwidth does this use?

What software are you using? 

Same here. Basic specs on my rig are:
16gb RAM
Ryzen 9 3900X
MSI 3080
1tb NVMe
750W Gigabyte power supply. 

I supposed I could mess with overclocking my CPU as well, it's liquid cooled with a 360mm radiator and three fans. 

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
6/24/21 11:15 a.m.
Toyman01 + Sized and said:

I find it interesting because I have a fairly capable gaming computer that spends 95% of its time just sitting doing nothing. The startup costs look like they would be pretty much zero other than some time investment to get the software set up. 

How much bandwidth does this use?

What software are you using? 

If you already have a good gaming computer with a solid graphics card then the only startup cost is time, yes.  What graphics card do you have?  How many gigabyes of VRAM it has that will dictate what you can mine.  My primary card is a 6GB RTX 2060 so I'm mining Ethereum using Windows Ethereum Miner.  I also mine Monero on my CPU with XMRig.  On another computer I mine Vertcoin with the Vertcoin one click miner.  They're all easy to configure and free software.  I also use MSI Afterburner to control the settings of my graphics card.  I'm probably going to switch my windows ethereum miner over to a program called gminer, as I've been told by lots of people it's better.  Once you get the software then you choose what pool to join - a pool is essentially just a big group of people all pooling their computing power together and mining together, and then splitting the profits.  It's much more efficient than mining solo (without a pool).  I believe I'm using nanopool for Ethereum and Zergpool for Vertcoin, and minexmr for monero.  I don't remember off the top of my head which wallets I use for them but some time on google will get you a lot of recommendations.  

Pretty much any coin or program you want to use will have page after page on the internet about it.  Reddit is a good place for this - there's subreddits for many of the coins, and for GPU mining in general.  If there's a mining software, mining pool, or wallet that has problems, you'll see a lot of complaints about it.  Spend a day reading and it's pretty easy to get started.

edit: I dont believe it uses much bandwidth, although a VPN will mess with a lot of miners, I know that much.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
6/24/21 11:26 a.m.
z31maniac said:

Same here. Basic specs on my rig are:
16gb RAM
Ryzen 9 3900X
MSI 3080
1tb NVMe
750W Gigabyte power supply. 

I supposed I could mess with overclocking my CPU as well, it's liquid cooled with a 360mm radiator and three fans. 

You have an excellent card there.  An RTX 3080 has almost three times the hash rates on Ethereum as my RTX 2060, so that card can earn you roughly $150/month before electricity.  Watch your temperatures very carefully though - a lot of people replace the thermal pads on them and sometimes stick a small heatsink on the back of the card where the processor itself is.  The 30 series cards are known for running hot, so the general advice is to run MSI Afterburning and have your proper overclock settings, then lower your total power going to your card down to around 75% (iirc).  And crank your GPU fan.  Your CPU can make about $28/month mining Monero with XMRig.  I would also recommend popping the side panel off of your tower to get lots of airflow in there.  Also, because some miners have been packaged inside malware in the past, many web browsers and antimalware programs will automatically flag them as a trojan.  This is normal, they aren't trojans (just make sure to download them from their official websites).  You'll have to add an exception in your antivirus.  Also normal.  I usually use Microsoft Edge to download the programs, as it's a horrible browser that'll let you download anything.

On second thought, mining is a bad idea and you're only going to lose money, but I'm willing to help you out by trading my 2060 for your 3080 laugh

Toyman01 + Sized and
Toyman01 + Sized and MegaDork
6/24/21 12:09 p.m.

Looks like my limiting factor is the GPU. Mine is a 1650 and only 4gb. If I'm reading the charts right, that's only about $23/month. 

Kind of a fun research project. 

 

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
6/24/21 1:28 p.m.

In reply to Toyman01 + Sized and :

It's one hell of a rabbit hole to fall down!  With 4GB, you can't mine Ethereum but you can still mine Ravencoin, and there's plenty of others you can mine.  You can mine Ethereum Classic as well, I believe, which a lot of people do.  And of course, Vertcoin, which I'm oddly fond of.  Personally, I'd love to have a 1650.  It's a solid card.  I've been searching FB marketplace for one for an acceptable price and not having much luck yet.  I think if I had to start over, I would have started with AMD cards.  From what I've read, they tend to cost about 20% less than Nvidia cards for the same hash rate.  Or in a perfect world, I'll find a 3080 like z31maniac has and start mining some real cash.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
6/24/21 2:13 p.m.
infinitenexus said:
z31maniac said:

Same here. Basic specs on my rig are:
16gb RAM
Ryzen 9 3900X
MSI 3080
1tb NVMe
750W Gigabyte power supply. 

I supposed I could mess with overclocking my CPU as well, it's liquid cooled with a 360mm radiator and three fans. 

You have an excellent card there.  An RTX 3080 has almost three times the hash rates on Ethereum as my RTX 2060, so that card can earn you roughly $150/month before electricity.  Watch your temperatures very carefully though - a lot of people replace the thermal pads on them and sometimes stick a small heatsink on the back of the card where the processor itself is.  The 30 series cards are known for running hot, so the general advice is to run MSI Afterburning and have your proper overclock settings, then lower your total power going to your card down to around 75% (iirc).  And crank your GPU fan.  Your CPU can make about $28/month mining Monero with XMRig.  I would also recommend popping the side panel off of your tower to get lots of airflow in there.  Also, because some miners have been packaged inside malware in the past, many web browsers and antimalware programs will automatically flag them as a trojan.  This is normal, they aren't trojans (just make sure to download them from their official websites).  You'll have to add an exception in your antivirus.  Also normal.  I usually use Microsoft Edge to download the programs, as it's a horrible browser that'll let you download anything.

On second thought, mining is a bad idea and you're only going to lose money, but I'm willing to help you out by trading my 2060 for your 3080 laugh

I don't know if the side panel would need to be removed, I think the case has 6 fans in it, not counting the PSU fan.........and I made a mistake it's an 850watt power supply. 

I might have to check out the whattomine site. Although, I bought this monster of a pre-built for sim racing........not to be running it into the ground mining when I'm not sim racing. 

It was almost $3k for the computer alone, so that's a lot of wear-and-tear through extra heat and use for not much return.

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