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SVreX (Forum Supporter)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/3/21 9:57 a.m.

I really appreciate the detail you've put into this thread. It has convinced me that mining is not for me. 
 

I have, however, had some difficulty following the costs. How much money have you invested, , and how much time?

It sounds like you've actually put a fair amount of money into it, and a lot of time. Especially if the learning curve is included. 
 

The details are great. Just don't see that the big picture has been outlined.  That's the part I'm interested in. 

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
8/3/21 10:30 a.m.

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

Those numbers are approximations, but yes.  When I started, I was only mining at roughly a rate of just under $100/month.  As of right now I'm mining at a rate of roughly $350/month.  I've been buying graphics cards regularly as I've been doing this so my mining rate is continually increasing.  So overall, in the past month or so I've made around $200 (another approximation, but doing some quick math in my head I'm at about $250 actually).  I hope that clears it up a bit.

SVreX (Forum Supporter)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/3/21 10:56 a.m.

In reply to infinitenexus :

Not really, but thanks. 

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
8/3/21 11:00 a.m.

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

I'm trying to avoid writing a novel about this, as I'm pretty bad about that.  I've spent roughly $1200 so far, and I'm working with a 3-4 month ROI on everything so far.  I've been extremely careful with prices and reusing old computer stuff, so I've been able to save a lot of money.  Long term goals are to mine at a rate of $500/month which should be pretty easy and by the end of next year I'd like to hit $1,000/month.  That'll take extra effort as I'll have to focus on efficiency and scalability but I'm confident I can do it.  I'm sure at some point in time I'll pull a few bucks out for whatever reason, but my plan is to save all of the crypto that I'm mining and hold it for 5+ years, or at least until the next big spike.   For me, this is a fascinating hobby that just so happens to make money instead of wasting money.  And the way I see it, if I'm able to mine a grand a month for the next 10 years, that's $120K mined, however the prices of most cryptocurrencies are expected to rise.  So even if it doesn't increase, I'll still have some good money for my family.  And if and when it does increase, I'll have even more money for my family.  I guess if you thought of it as a cross between a hobby, a small business, and an investment, that would be pretty accurate.  I seem to be pretty good at this, so I'll just keep mining as long as it's profitable, which will likely be many years into the future.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
8/3/21 11:07 a.m.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to infinitenexus :

Not really, but thanks. 

1 month ago I was buying 10 miatas a month.  I've continually increased my buying power so right now I'm buying 30 miatas per month.  As the rate has increased over the course of the month, I wound up buying about 20 miatas this past month overall, as I just now hit the 30 miatas/month mark.  Although my miata buying rate is 30 miatas per month right now, I just increased my buying rate a bit again so in a week it'll be 35 miatas per month.  Which means my average for next month will be around 34 miatas, as I'm spending one week at a rate of 30 miatas/month and 3 weeks at 35 miatas/month.

I hope that's better.  I'm just trying to describe how the amount of crypto I mine is continually rising as I'm adding new equipment.  So my $200-something that I made last month is just a result of how I started the month at a rate of less than $100/month and ended at a rate of more than $300/month.

Also forgot to mention electricity.  As modern computer equipment is getting more and more efficient, my electricity bill has only increased by I believe around $30ish per month.  So roughly 10% of what I mine.

SVreX (Forum Supporter)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/3/21 11:34 a.m.

In reply to infinitenexus :

Sounds like you are saying you have invested $1200 in capital and equipment, not counting labor.  

Labor is (of course) a moving target, but it sounds like you spend 5-10 hours a week, and invested additional time up front in the learning curve.

You ARE mining $200 per month (first month), but project you are on track to mine $300 this month, and hope for more in the future (contingent on market conditions, equipment pricing, equipment efficiencies, and market rate changes which are out of your control).

Your operating expenses are currently about $30 per month in electricity, plus upgrades in equipment, graphics cards, etc.

 

Sound close?

Slippery
Slippery UberDork
8/3/21 11:38 a.m.

I think what SVreX wants is something along these lines, correct me if I am wrong:

(A):
Pc $xx
Video card $xx
Supporting electronics $xx
Electricity April $xx
Electricity May $xx
Electricity June $xx
Electricity July $xx

(B) Money collected since project started $700

(C) Approx man hours spent on project since inception ~20 

He can then subtract (A) from (B) and along with (C) have a better picture. 

The way you word it now is somewhat confusing and one loses track of what all is involved. 

Also it would be good to know how you quantify (B). Is it in crypto and you convert it to dollars when you type based on the current market price or do you already turned it into u$s.

Very interesting thread. 

SVreX (Forum Supporter)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/3/21 11:49 a.m.

In reply to Slippery :

Basically.

I'm observing that there are a lot of grey areas in how this is being presented, and the ROI calculations are not even close to the ways in which ROI is typically calculated.

There are several people in this thread (including me) who are interested in the actual returns, and that's not evident by the way in which it is presented.

Taxes will be paid in US dollars.  Until the crypto has gone full cycle and been converted back into NET US dollars (including commissions, fees, conversion costs, and actual market value at the time of conversion), the ROI is a creative guess at best.

It's an interesting thread.  It shares many of the techniques, skills, and methods required.  But the money estimates aren't making much sense.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
8/3/21 11:58 a.m.

So, question:  How do the same folks who wring their hands and weep about global warming justify burning large amount of electricity to make a few bucks in a shady, speculative market?  Or does all this talk of responsibly shrinking your "carbon footprint" only apply to everyone else?

Slippery
Slippery UberDork
8/3/21 12:00 p.m.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

They use the proceeds to plant more trees wink

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
8/3/21 12:08 p.m.

In reply to infinitenexus :

I understand you homie.

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
8/3/21 12:10 p.m.

In reply to Slippery :

Naw just do like the large corporations.  Buy carbon credits from some place in Indonesia that promises not the cut down a rain forest.  

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/3/21 12:23 p.m.
1988RedT2 said:

Or does all this talk of responsibly shrinking your "carbon footprint" only apply to everyone else?

For 99.8% of people, this has always been the case. 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) Dork
8/3/21 12:39 p.m.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

A bunch of corporate cryptominers just moved to Dallas from China where the government actually was concerned about wasted electrical use. They are on the hunt for large warehouses with enough juice for their servers. I can hardly wait for my monthly electric bill to shoot up thanks to increased electrical demand. They were talking about rolling blackouts even before the big time cryptominers showed up. My property taxes have already shot up thanks to people moving here from California who bid up the price of any shack with a roof on it around here. They are also building huge houses here like crazy to satisfy all the people here with money coming from out of state and even out of the country. Guess what's going to happen when they hook all those new mini-mansions up to the grid along with all the warehouses full of cryptoservers.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
8/3/21 4:04 p.m.

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

Because I'm also just using general terms and I don't have my spreadsheet with me.  

I also track my mining both by how much I mined total in a month, and the rate that I mine, which continually changes.  That's why I was saying I mined more than $200 last month but my current rate is more than $300/month.  Also as I understand, I'll pay taxes when I sell the crypto, similar to other investments.

It's kinda like if I was traveling at 40mph and then over the course of a mile I sped up to 60mph.  My average speed might be 50mph over that mile, but I am now at 60mph so that's what I'll say when you ask my speed.  

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
8/3/21 4:05 p.m.
1988RedT2 said:

So, question:  How do the same folks who wring their hands and weep about global warming justify burning large amount of electricity to make a few bucks in a shady, speculative market?  Or does all this talk of responsibly shrinking your "carbon footprint" only apply to everyone else?

Did you see where I said I'm using $30/month in electricity?  For the record, my electric bill last month was less than $60.  So even while mining crypto, my carbon footprint is still much smaller than most people's.  Nice try though.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
8/3/21 4:07 p.m.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

A bunch of corporate cryptominers just moved to Dallas from China where the government actually was concerned about wasted electrical use. They are on the hunt for large warehouses with enough juice for their servers. I can hardly wait for my monthly electric bill to shoot up thanks to increased electrical demand. They were talking about rolling blackouts even before the big time cryptominers showed up. My property taxes have already shot up thanks to people moving here from California who bid up the price of any shack with a roof on it around here. They are also building huge houses here like crazy to satisfy all the people here with money coming from out of state and even out of the country. Guess what's going to happen when they hook all those new mini-mansions up to the grid along with all the warehouses full of cryptoservers.

Try to keep in mind there's a very large difference between these massive crypto miners using ASICs that practically need their own power plant and people like me that are using less electricity than the window unit A/C I recently got.  

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
8/3/21 4:07 p.m.
Stampie said:

In reply to infinitenexus :

I understand you homie.

Thanks Stampie.  Have you given more thought to trying an ASIC miner?

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
8/3/21 4:29 p.m.

In reply to infinitenexus :

I have.  Kinda stuck in the thought process of energy usage vs mining profit.  For example I could dedicate ~5000 watts to mining with my house electric set up.  Do I start with a $1200ish L3 that if works I could max out at 5 or go big with a $6-$8k rig that'll make 8x the profit and I could run maybe 3 pushing it if it works.  So I'm very much into a power usage limit vs profitability thing.  Plus I like to overthink spending money on things unless it's a cool car and I have a couple of drinks in me.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
8/3/21 4:47 p.m.

ASICs are a whole different ballgame.  Power usage and the cost of entry can be a lot higher, but the potential for profit can be pretty incredible.

 

I'm home now so I can be a bit more specific with numbers since some people have requested that, although really I need to focus on cooking dinner (can't figure out what I want to make though).  So far I have mined a total of 0.08246333 Ethereum, which is currently worth $205.10 (that number changes as the price of Ethereum changes; so far it's increased by a good 10%).  I have also mined 161.96 Vertcoin, which is currently worth $79.88.  And a whopping $1.13 in Ethereum Classic - I just started mining that so it'll take me time to get it where I want it.

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
8/3/21 4:51 p.m.

Look what came in the mail today!

Plus they gave me $5 worth of Bitcoin which is now worth $4.83. Should have hit the market right yesterday at $5.23. 

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
8/3/21 5:31 p.m.
infinitenexus said:
1988RedT2 said:

So, question:  How do the same folks who wring their hands and weep about global warming justify burning large amount of electricity to make a few bucks in a shady, speculative market?  Or does all this talk of responsibly shrinking your "carbon footprint" only apply to everyone else?

Did you see where I said I'm using $30/month in electricity?  For the record, my electric bill last month was less than $60.  So even while mining crypto, my carbon footprint is still much smaller than most people's.  Nice try though.

I did not.  I haven't read the entire thread and my comment was in no way directed at you.  I am sorry if you interpreted it in that way.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Dork
8/3/21 5:48 p.m.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

Thank you.  I think there's a certain point of view that some people have where all crypto mining uses massive amounts of electricity and I'm trying to show that it doesn't have to be that way.

Another thing I'm planning on once we buy a house is getting a small wind turbine.  1500W ones are very cheap these days, and I can mine a LOT of crypto on 1500W!

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) Dork
8/3/21 6:10 p.m.
infinitenexus said:

ASICs are a whole different ballgame.  Power usage and the cost of entry can be a lot higher, but the potential for profit can be pretty incredible.

I still don't get how it benefits Dallas or any other city. A bunch of investors come in from somewhere else and set up a huge bitcoin factory that makes them a lot of money but hires very few people, then shuts down the electrical grid killing everybody's a/c and the GM factory in Arlington that hires a lot more people. China  has already thrown them out of the country.

I guess we have to learn the hard way.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/bitcoin-mining-companies-eyeing-move-to-us-amid-crypto-crackdown-in-china/

tester (Forum Supporter)
tester (Forum Supporter) Reader
8/3/21 7:13 p.m.

Just put this in some sort of normal business frame work...

Up front Capital investment $1200

Current gross top line $200-300 ish

Reoccuring expense $30

Expected gross top line per month $300 at first. 

It will take about 3-4 months to break even on your capital expenditure before you make a profit. That assumes the mining rate is stable. If I understand this electronic mining business, the rate of crypto mined will drop over time. I would try to extrapolate that curve to make sure that this is worth pursuing. 

To put this another way; In 6 months, will this rig still be making $270ish net or more like $60? 

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