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spacecadet Dork
9/20/19 6:52 p.m.
Fueled by Caffeine said:

My biggest concern with Tesla is build quality and after sale service availability.  Their parts and service side of the house is horrible.  The fast lane guys hit a garage door with a model three and had to wait for ~4 months for it to be repaired due to parts availability.  https://www.tflcar.com/2019/06/tesla-repair-hell-it-can-be-a-thing-as-we-find-out-from-this-model-3-owner/




I think the car is cool.  Just dont wreck it or need parts. 

This is a sentiment I share. 

They're neat cars and they're pushing the boundaries forward for EV's but parts and service seems to have the possibility of being a nightmare. 

Back to day to day ownership. 

I worked for an EV fleet vehicle startup 7 years ago.

Running a heater starts to really burn off range, but it may not be as bad these days on vehicles with these much larger packs, and you guys live in a place with long winters. I'd talk to local owners about how they deal with this. With your wife's commute needs it may not matter, but I'd definitely look into it. We ended up having to add a small fuel oil heater to our vehicle for cold weather climates (no the irony of that wasn't lost on any of us, it was just the most cost effective answer to the issue for us and the end users). 

the cars only regen under off throttle, and do not regen to a full stop from what I was told by my buddy with a M3 Performance. So again, talking to local owners is probably the best bet. I'd possibly see if you guys can look into driving one once snow hits. 

that's my snippits to add. 

I say go for it if the financials make sense for you guys and you like the car! 


mattm Reader
9/20/19 8:34 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

How about I put it this way: all cars are built with the same hardware whether you pay the $6000 surcharge for "self driving" or not. I'm not interested in the autonomy aspect personally, and you'll notice I've never used the term Autopilot in this discussion. It gets people a little too wound up and sidetracks the discussion.

Which is where we are now, about to devolve into TESLA SUCKS NO TESLA IS THE GREATEST THING EVER ELON MUSK ATE MY BABY. Thanks for the input and logical discussion, folks.  It's interesting that there are no Tesla owners on the GRM board from what I can tell, just relatives of them. Janel and I still haven't made up our minds on this. If we do decide to replace the WJ and it's not with a Model 3, I will be saddled with a damn FCA Grand Cherokee for the next 20 years...

I have a Model S so not exactly what you are asking for, but should be close enough.  I have also driven a friends Model 3 which is what I would have purchased if I didn’t need the extra space of the S.  My Model S has ruined me for combustion engined cars.  Driving my wife’s 2014 Durango might as well feel like driving a steam locomotive.  Winter driving is excellent even in Cleveland on all seasons.  Cleveland is about as bad as the weather gets in Ohio so I suspect Colorado would benefit from snows but I cannot imagine an issue.  The traction control is really quite good and all the weight is low in the car and between the axles.  Mashing the go pedal in the snow generates alarming acceleration and you normally don’t have to touch the regen settings at all.  


Winter mileage hit can vary but 20-25% is in the ballpark.  However, if you leave it plugged in at night you can use shore power to heat the seats, wheel, interior and importantly battery before ever leaving the house for the day.  This can do a lot to mitigate the cold weather effect on mileage.  I stay in hotels with destination chargers almost exclusively now as I can charge the car at night for free and preheat or pre-cool the car before leaving to my next destination.  When supercharging in the cold with a cold soaked battery you need to wait for the supercharger to heat the battery at low current until it is ready for the full high speed charge.  This can be avoided by driving the for some time to heat the battery before stopping at the supercharger.  Interestingly if you set the supercharger as your destination with the navigation, the car will preheat the battery while you are driving so you don’t have to experience that delay.  The same thing happens when you are using navigation.  The car will identify if you need to stop for a charge and will navigate you there.  You will get the same preheating of the batteries in that scenario.  


The cars are are amazingly efficient and deliver significantly more range than the competition even today.  The supercharger network is a killer feature and enables worry free travel almost everywhere in a LR model 3, much less a 100D S like mine. They continue to build out the network as well and have introduced faster charging stations (250kw) which they continue to roll out.  My car is newer and I have no issues with panel gaps or paint issues.  The interior isn’t as nice as an S class Benz that’s true, but the battery tech is leagues beyond the competition and OTA updates are killer.  For a street car I’m never going back.  

9/21/19 10:24 a.m.
mtn said:
eastsideTim said:

I think the advantage you have over other potential Tesla owners is if the car is sidelined, you have backup vehicles.  

There are also enough Model 3s out there now that I suspect if Tesla were to go under, someone would find it worthwhile to manufacture critical mechanical/electrical parts, and salvage companies could supply the rest of what’s needed.

I don't think there is any real risk of Tesla the car company going under. They may be way overvalued, but I think they're big enough and trendy enough to make it or at very least be bought by someone. 


I'm just wary of their product for the next few years.

Even if something catastrophic occurred to Tesla, they would just pivot to battery production for OEMs- they would be fine, but reduced to something akin to Ac-Delco or Aisin. They own multiple patents for new electrolyte chemistries now and that's the major reason why the new Model S'es/X'es are up to 370 miles.

The Model 3 is better for HVAC heating because it still uses heat from the batteries resistance, similar to a normal gas car but in less capacity. The Leaf and Smart EV both used ceramic heaters- basically a space heater you would have at home- for heating instead, which while massively efficient still just use energy. Not sure if the 3 has one; it probably does, just in a reduced capacity.

MrChaos Dork
9/21/19 11:45 a.m.

I am interested in an electric car as my next new car. I am still not sure how I feel about tesla as a company but the model 3 seems to be a decent option.  Since im looking 3-5 years out, I am interested what other manufacturers bring out.

mattm Reader
9/21/19 6:20 p.m.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Model S is up to 370 miles of range due to a new permanent magnet front electric motor which is more efficient than the previous motor.  While Tesla does have other battery tech the battery is the same between 2018 and 2019 Model S.  The May 2019 Model S also gets a new suspension but that is not a big factor in the mileage difference.


Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/21/19 6:42 p.m.

Well, soon we'll know more. Yes, I bought it on my phone because I could :)


mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
9/21/19 7:17 p.m.

I look forward to you sharing your experience. EV's really are the future for the majority of our personal transport. 

eastsideTim UberDork
9/21/19 7:25 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Cool - Hope you all enjoy it!

clutchsmoke UltraDork
9/21/19 10:42 p.m.

I think the best part is the electrons don't care about elevation. All the power!!!

Ransom UltimaDork
9/21/19 10:49 p.m.

Awesome, congratulations! Looking forward to your impressions and your observations as you guys get some time in it!

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/22/19 7:07 a.m.

In case you didn’t pick it up, that is the actual confirmation screen once you order a car. I can’t see BMW doing that...

RossD MegaDork
9/22/19 7:13 a.m.

Give us a run down on the options on the car.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/22/19 7:59 a.m.

It’s not a deep option list. Black on black, dual motor, long range. I probably would have chosen the blue, but Janel likes the black and it does minimize the weird fishy grill-less nose. 

Slippery SuperDork
9/22/19 8:57 a.m.

Very cool!!! Cant wait to hear about your experience. 

Slippery SuperDork
9/22/19 9:00 a.m.

Did you trade in the GC to them? 

My BIL traded in a Mazda 3 and he said that they offered him the same as Carmax and the process was as easy as it could be. 

BoxheadTim MegaDork
9/22/19 9:01 a.m.

I'll also be interested in following along the ownership experience.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/22/19 10:14 a.m.

The trade-in offer for the GC was basically what it would have cost them to truck it to a junkyard. The vehicle has fully depreciated. It's in atypical shape, so I'll sell it privately. 

slefain PowerDork
9/22/19 1:47 p.m.

I can't wait to start seeing what products you create for the platform.

I wonder how hard it would be to re-gear the final drive ratio.

californiamilleghia HalfDork
9/22/19 3:08 p.m.

when will it be delivered ?

is it out of current stock or are they building it for you ?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/22/19 3:51 p.m.
slefain said:

I can't wait to start seeing what products you create for the platform.

I wonder how hard it would be to re-gear the final drive ratio.

You misunderstand the expected use. There will be no product development. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/22/19 3:57 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

when will it be delivered ?

is it out of current stock or are they building it for you ?

I don’t have a date yet. There’s no stock in Denver of “my” car, but they seem to work on a JIT basis and watching the inventory seems to back that up.  Hopefully I’ll get assigned a VIN of a car that’s already on the way. 

Ransom UltimaDork
9/22/19 5:02 p.m.

Had to go to the mall today. I think I can thank this thread for feeling the need to stick my head back into the Tesla showroom. Escaped with no consequences, though.

Nitroracer UltraDork
9/22/19 7:42 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

That's an interesting point about the regen on slippery surfaces.

Looks like there are 14 options at Tire Rack for snow tires in 235/45-18, but good suggestion to check.

Every time it becomes known that anyone at FM has a non-Miata, the "will there be a Flyin' X?" questions start :)

When I lived in a snowier climate I did have one experience in my Volt with regen on a downhill where the front of the car started to wash out and point toward a ditch.  A quick tap of the shifter from Low to Drive put the car back into a freewheel mode and I was able to use the brakes to regain control and drive away like normal.  On the really nasty days it was best to use drive, but even with winter driving included the car is driven 95% of the time making full use of regen braking. 

Edit: I hope your car shows up soon!


java230 UltraDork
9/23/19 11:53 a.m.

Very cool, I am excited to hear what you think of it.

tuna55 MegaDork
9/23/19 12:25 p.m.

I really hope you have none of the build quality issues keeping me away.


I'll probably end up with a used Bolt here pretty soon. I know the 3 is a better driving car, but I just can't take that spottiness for a needed-every-day daily driver.

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