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TRoglodyte UltraDork
10/7/21 8:54 p.m.

 Embossed stamp on the paper, like a signet ring. Sign off or question the others. Embossed  stamp or it doesn't happen?

AClockworkGarage Dork
10/7/21 11:34 p.m.

I don't see this as much of an ethical issue at all. If lives are in danger you need to move this up the chain. Within your company or without.

We all just spent 4 years watching nobody say anything until it was time to profit off a book.

The Citigroup Centre incident shows that coming forward when you know something isn't automatically career suicide.

Duke MegaDork
10/8/21 7:31 a.m.
Mr_Asa said:
wake74 said:

Each state will have both a GC Licensing Board and an Engineering Licensing Board, although each state calls them something slightly different.  They will all have means of filing complaints, often anonymously.  If you personally are a licensed PE, there are very specific rules in your state that govern how you deal with these types of situations and your obligation to report.  If your company carries a License to perform engineering that the company bares responsibility to report.

As someone who has spent their life in the Engineering and Construction industry its amazing some of the E36 M3 people do.

So, how would that work if we're doing the design in Florida, but its being constructed in *cough cough*?

It would go through the *cough cough* registration boards, because the parties involved will have to be licensed in *cough cough* to build the *ahem* there.


Apexcarver UltimaDork
10/8/21 8:12 a.m.

Is the project something that would have federal regulatory oversight?

If it is, that is a good vector with well established whistleblower protection statutes. 


Apis Mellifera
Apis Mellifera Dork
10/8/21 6:08 p.m.

Complicity issues aside, I can tell you that in my experience, the government doesn't generally pay for goods until they are received and compared to the contracted specs.  I'm not about to offer advice in a situation where lives are potentially at stake.   I will say that government specs, at least the ones I've written and read, are usually extremely detailed and specify nearly everything.  If it passes inspection, the product is accepted and notice is sent to purchasing to release payment.  I have rejected things that failed to meet my design specs.  The product was not used and contractor had to rectify the flaw before they got paid.  I assigned the inspection of a contracted good to an employee just last week.  If he, an employee of the contractor, a subcontractor, or anyone else notified me of a design spec that was not met or of a flaw that could mean a failure in the future, it would mean a full stop with close scrutiny of the area.  The item would not go into production until it met the original specs.   



Mr_Asa PowerDork
10/8/21 6:27 p.m.

So, good news, bossman is on the same page with me.  He has a plan and it put me at ease. 
That being said, the plot thickened today.

Apis Mellifera said:

Complicity issues aside, I can tell you that in my experience, the government doesn't generally pay for goods until they are received and compared to the contracted specs.

So today when we had a call with them, the other CAD Monkey asked them point blank "Hey, you know the thing that doesn't do the thing?  What's going on with that?"
"Oh, it does the thing now."
Bossman, CAD Monkey, and I all looked at each other ".... Ok, sure." Bossman said.
And we moved on to other issues and finished the call.

We are fairly sure they are going to try and hide it somehow.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/8/21 8:28 p.m.

So the dilemma is that you don't want to "out" the contractor's employee and get them in trouble?  Or you disagree with your boss about not doing anything about it?

I know you just started there, but a well-worded "hey, I couldn't help but notice... not my place.... just thought you should know" to an applicable party is definitely in order.  I agree with what's been said above... if it is found that you didn't say anything, it's no bueno.  I'm guessing since it's such a small office that your boss is THE boss?  Like, there isn't a business manager in between you and the owner?  Still, I think a carefully worded email that panders to his/her personality is in order, but the bottom line is that it needs to be documented.  If they are straight shooters and you can say "listen, buttpunch, this is BS."  If they're more aloof and narcissistic, maybe "Just thought it might be nice to have a list of all the things we discussed, you're the boss, I trust you to do what's best for our business...."

Bottom line, it's unlikely you'll get fired.  The last thing they want is a lawsuit for unlawful termination because you pointed out imminent death and the boss ignored it by firing you.

A similar thing happened to me when I first started as a manager at a transmission repair shop.  It was nightmarishly busy in that office.  Phone calls, accounting, service writing, managing 23 techs and 4 guys in the body shop, none of whom spoke English.  I got a call from someone claiming to be from the BBB, but I dismissed it as spam.  I kept remembering it as I would fall asleep, "I should tell the franchise owner."  Weeks went by and I forgot about it, but the BBB didn't.  The franchise owner was furious.  He sent me home and said "don't come back until I call you," which was three days later.  He was upset that I didn't say anything.  I dropped the ball in the chain of command and I put the owner in between my failure and corporate's wrath.  I'm not sure he ever trusted me again.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/8/21 8:29 p.m.

I guess what I'm saying is... if you have to choose between causing a kerfuffle versus people dying.... choose the kerfuffle.

Mr_Asa PowerDork
10/8/21 10:10 p.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Issue was with the boss not doing anything.  Its settled now, we've spoken.

dean1484 MegaDork
10/8/21 10:21 p.m.

I have been in some sticky situations in the past and in all of them there comes a time when you have to do the right thing. If it means loosing your job so be it. Doing the right thing has been the cornerstone of my professional career.   I can sleep at night I know many that choices they have made have eaten them up and spit them out to the curb. Lastly understand that the government will not care if you intended to do the right thing. You either do the correct thing or you are complicit to doing the wrong thing if you know about the wrong thing.

My gut is telling my to blow it up and let the ensuing shrapnel hit who ever is in its path. 

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