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Josh
Josh Dork
1/30/10 11:30 p.m.
Chris_V wrote: And the iPad still can't replace an actual computer (even a netbook) for all the things a computer does, so you still kinda have to have one of those.

Not for you, but you're not everyone. For my mom, it would do everything she'd ever want to do with a computer, while being a whole lot simpler to use and maintain. To her, I'm sure the iPad detractors kind of sound like us when we wonder why anyone would ever buy a Camry because it doesn't come with a 5-speed and doesn't slalom as well as a 3-series.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
1/30/10 11:40 p.m.
Chris_V wrote: But then you bought a $500 iPad instead of a $100 smartphone that does more and fits in your pocket. And the iPad still can't replace an actual computer (even a netbook) for all the things a computer does, so you still kinda have to have one of those. I can't picture whipping out the iPad in a restaurant to check something the way you can do it on even an iPhone (or a blackberry or palm). And you'd still ahve to have the phone to call or text whoever/whatever store restaurant you're looking up. At this point, it's still way too much money for way to little ability and way too much inconvenience in most situations. It looks pretty though...

After a year, your $100 smartphone is a $1200 smartphone with a small screen while a $500 iPad is still a $500 iPad And if anyone whips out a phone to check anything when they're in a restaurant with me, they'd better hope the phone can swim.

I'm not trying to say that everyone needs to run out and buy one, just like nobody's going to convince me my life will improve if I'm never disconnected from the internet. In my wife's case, I can see how an iPad would work well for her. The fact that it's larger than a smartphone is a plus for her use, not a minus. The people who buy these things are unlikely to be the tech nerds who discuss them on internet forums

Osterkraut
Osterkraut Dork
1/31/10 12:20 a.m.
Chris_V wrote:

I see your iPad Nano and raise you...

Salanis
Salanis SuperDork
1/31/10 1:26 a.m.

It's a new apple product. People will buy it.

Not me. That would be trackday money.

I'll leave it to other people to field test to see if it's truly useful. If it is, I'll be Grassroots and pick up a used one off Craigslist in two years. But probably not.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
1/31/10 10:19 a.m.
Lugnut wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote: Explain. How is it ink on a computer screen?
It's not a computer screen. It's e-ink. Basically it is ink particles, positively charged white particles and negatively charged black particles, in a clear matrix. So the reader adjusts the charge for each dot of ink and turns it white or black. It's just like ink on a paper, only the actual molecular structure of the ink reacts to the charge.

Basically like LCD. It's still pixelated - just really small pixels.

Josh
Josh Dork
1/31/10 10:39 a.m.

Ah, yes, you have found the secret. Much like the internet itself, the iPad is for Porn.

(watches apple stock price skyrocket)

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
1/31/10 5:15 p.m.
Keith wrote: After a year, your $100 smartphone is a $1200 smartphone with a small screen while a $500 iPad is still a $500 iPad

? My $100 smartphone wasn't/isn't a $1200 smartphone after a year.

And if anyone whips out a phone to check anything when they're in a restaurant with me, they'd better hope the phone can swim.

sigh

Remember, Keith. you don't have to TALK on a smartphone, you can still surf the web, or text the party you're waiting for in complete silence. Just like an iPad, except it fits in my pocket. And unlike the iPad, it still can be used as a phone, so it's one tech doing the job of two.

I'm saying that unlike a number of other things, the iPad doesn't do ANYTHING better than things that are already on the market. It's pretty, I'll give it that.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
2/1/10 10:57 a.m.

Yup. In terms of lifetime cost of ownership and device abilities, the iPad is better compared to an iPod Touch than a smartphone - although the iPad does have free 3G as an option. When you're comparing to a smartphone, you have to take the high monthly costs into account. Just for fun, add up what it would cost to own an iPhone for the required 2 year plan.

It could be argued that, barring the lack of an ability to make phone calls and fit in your pocket, the iPad does everything an iPhone does - but thanks to a bigger screen, does it better. So it's a matter of deciding what it is you want your device to do. If it's more important that it be with you all the time, with the resultant sacrifice of screen real estate, then the smartphone makes sense. If you're willing to deal with the fact that it won't always be on your person but you want a screen that is more useful for tasks that take more than a minute, then the iPad makes sense.

As I mentioned, an iPad could easily replace my wife's netbook based on her usage patterns. A smartphone could not. Would the iPad be better? Dunno, I'd have to spend some time playing with one in person, and whenever we go to replace the netbook it may be in the running.

To draw a parallel with the various ebook readers, the same experimentation with sizes is taking place. You can get them with anything from a 5" Sony Pocket Reader to a 9.7" Kindle DX - and I'm probably missing some Korean model with a 15" screen. It'll be interesting to see where the market goes with those. In that case, with the way reflowing text displays well on a small screen and the fact that portability is a fairly major selling point, I think the original form factor of a 5-6" screen is going to win out.

jrw1621
jrw1621 Dork
2/1/10 11:13 a.m.

College campuses will be the secret for Apple.
They will load these in cheap(er) with student discounts, get the University itself to support/integrate the device and the net result is a user for life.

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
2/1/10 11:44 a.m.

the apple flavoured koolaid runs strong

joey48442
joey48442 SuperDork
2/1/10 12:16 p.m.
Keith wrote: Yup. In terms of lifetime cost of ownership and device abilities, the iPad is better compared to an iPod Touch than a smartphone - although the iPad does have free 3G as an option. When you're comparing to a smartphone, you have to take the high monthly costs into account. Just for fun, add up what it would cost to own an iPhone for the required 2 year plan. It could be argued that, barring the lack of an ability to make phone calls and fit in your pocket, the iPad does everything an iPhone does - but thanks to a bigger screen, does it better. So it's a matter of deciding what it is you want your device to do. If it's more important that it be with you all the time, with the resultant sacrifice of screen real estate, then the smartphone makes sense. If you're willing to deal with the fact that it won't always be on your person but you want a screen that is more useful for tasks that take more than a minute, then the iPad makes sense. As I mentioned, an iPad could easily replace my wife's netbook based on her usage patterns. A smartphone could not. Would the iPad be better? Dunno, I'd have to spend some time playing with one in person, and whenever we go to replace the netbook it may be in the running. To draw a parallel with the various ebook readers, the same experimentation with sizes is taking place. You can get them with anything from a 5" Sony Pocket Reader to a 9.7" Kindle DX - and I'm probably missing some Korean model with a 15" screen. It'll be interesting to see where the market goes with those. In that case, with the way reflowing text displays well on a small screen and the fact that portability is a fairly major selling point, I think the original form factor of a 5-6" screen is going to win out.

Sorry I had to quote your whole post, I didn't want to backspace the wholethjng to ge the part I needed, maybe that would be easier on an ipad...?
Anyway if you ad the whole price of anything up it gets scary. Tv, with cable or satelite, or pc with Internet... It's all pretty crazy.

Plus, if it's like the iPhone, there is no flash... That's why I may move to the droid wen my contract is up.

Joey

Keith
Keith SuperDork
2/1/10 12:43 p.m.

But that's why it's important to add it up. The $500 price point seems to be mentioned a lot as being "too much". But it's a one-time cost. It won't cost you anything to use it if you can find an open WiFi connection. Or, if you want 3G, you can get that for $629. It's a fair initial chunk, but since (to my understanding) there are no monthly fees involved so that means it's basically fitted with free internet no matter where you are. Compare that to, say, a PC with an internet connection that costs $30/month. All of a sudden a $300 netbook starts to look more expensive over a couple of years. That's a pretty big deal and does need to be taken into consideration.

The lack of flash is an excellent point, and one that's not liable to change. Apple's not going to open up the sandbox to something that would bypass the App Store.

I'm not an Apple fanboi. I use PCs at home and work and don't have any plans to pick up an Apple or to turn the netbook into a hackintosh. But I'm not going to dismiss the iPad as a knee-jerk reaction.

joey48442
joey48442 SuperDork
2/1/10 2:17 p.m.

No knee jerk here, I just miss flash often when I'm on the iPhone. If 629 gets you an ipad with lifetime 3g, that sounds like a good deal to me, if you don't mind the lack of flash.

Joey

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
2/1/10 3:43 p.m.
Keith wrote: But that's why it's important to add it up. The $500 price point seems to be mentioned a lot as being "too much". But it's a one-time cost. It won't cost you anything to use it if you can find an open WiFi connection. Or, if you want 3G, you can get that for $629. It's a fair initial chunk, but since (to my understanding) there are no monthly fees involved so that means it's basically fitted with free internet no matter where you are. Compare that to, say, a PC with an internet connection that costs $30/month. All of a sudden a $300 netbook starts to look more expensive over a couple of years. That's a pretty big deal and does need to be taken into consideration. The lack of flash is an excellent point, and one that's not liable to change. Apple's not going to open up the sandbox to something that would bypass the App Store. I'm not an Apple fanboi. I use PCs at home and work and don't have any plans to pick up an Apple or to turn the netbook into a hackintosh. But I'm not going to dismiss the iPad as a knee-jerk reaction.

If I could get an iPhone that only cost $629, I'd do it in a second.

nderwater
nderwater Reader
2/1/10 3:52 p.m.
DILYSI Dave wrote: If I could get an iPhone that only cost $629, I'd do it in a second.

eBay much?

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
2/1/10 4:06 p.m.
nderwater wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote: If I could get an iPhone that only cost $629, I'd do it in a second.
eBay much?

Sure. Link?

Josh
Josh Dork
2/1/10 7:24 p.m.

Keith, the iPad does still have to pay for 3g internet, but does not require a contract. You buy your 3g data alacarte through the device, $15 for 250mb or $30 for a month of unlimited. But you pay month to month and you can shut it off whenever you don't need it, IE, only turn the 3G on when you're traveling and won't have WiFi, etc.

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
2/1/10 8:13 p.m.

Flash is a dead technology. There is nothing it does that can't be done better another way.

It's just that some folks haven't got the memo yet.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
2/2/10 10:36 a.m.
Josh wrote: Keith, the iPad does still have to pay for 3g internet, but does not require a contract. You buy your 3g data alacarte through the device, $15 for 250mb or $30 for a month of unlimited. But you pay month to month and you can shut it off whenever you don't need it, IE, only turn the 3G on when you're traveling and won't have WiFi, etc.

Gotcha, thanks. I must have misinterpreted "don't need a contract" as "don't need to pay". It's not something I'd researched, as 3G is pretty low on my list of personal priorities. Very ironic considering what I used to do for a living.

Scott Lear
Scott Lear Production Editor
2/2/10 12:55 p.m.

Flash is dead? Then the internet has a zombie problem, cause there are sure a lot of Flash sites out there.

turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
2/3/10 11:39 a.m.
DILYSI Dave wrote:
nderwater wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote: If I could get an iPhone that only cost $629, I'd do it in a second.
eBay much?
Sure. Link?

You can get iPhone 3G refurbs for $50 now.

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
2/3/10 12:50 p.m.
Tim Baxter wrote: Flash is a dead technology. There is nothing it does that can't be done better another way. It's just that some folks haven't got the memo yet.

As was mentioned, there are a LOT of Flash sites out there, and a LOT of flash video on the web. Silverlight's not a viable response, and the legions of developers that have flash creation software will make it viable as an animated format for quite a while. Especially a scalable animated format.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
2/3/10 12:59 p.m.
turboswede wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote:
nderwater wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote: If I could get an iPhone that only cost $629, I'd do it in a second.
eBay much?
Sure. Link?
You can get iPhone 3G refurbs for $50 now.

The phone is the cheap part. Find me an iPhone where the cost of ownership is $629, and that's where I'll sign up. As it is, an iPhone is more expensive to own than half the cars I've had.

autoxrs
autoxrs New Reader
2/23/10 11:46 a.m.

iPad... meh... Notion Ink might just kick its behind.

http://www.notionink.in/adamoverview.php

Open source SDK for custom end user development

"intelligent" screen that detects sunlight/darkness

Track pad on the back for easier usage

Lower power consuming screen = longer battery life

There are a bunch of videos floating around, supposed to be released around June.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
2/23/10 12:06 p.m.

That's a pretty cool screen. Very interesting stuff, thanks!

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