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sesto elemento
sesto elemento SuperDork
4/12/17 5:04 p.m.

Hi guys (and gals)!

The time has come to upgrade living spaces and I've found a place that I am head over heels for.

Where it gets interesting is: it needs a roof on the ginormous garage (well at least I consider 45'x90' garage ginormous, if you don't then you are awesome and are winning at life).

The house is priced at a level where I can just barely get it done on swmbo's and my salaries. The roof appears not to be leaking and we haven't made an offer yet so no home inspection yet. I did a thorough walk through with my dad and there are some things we found. The main house has a rotten sill in one spot from the ground being to close to the clapboards. The garage roof is visibly getting old, the shingles are discolored and patchy looking. Quotes on the roof look to be in the just sub40k range (ouch).

I'd like to get the place bought and pick away at it but a trusted advisor (my father) says that I can't hope to buy the place without doing the roof right away due to insurance. He fears that the insurance co will drop us and the bank will call the loan, thoroughly berkleying my life up. I am prequalified for more than the house costs but can only afford what I think I can reasonably talk the owner down to. I have a friend who is a real estate agent that is working with us but I dont feel like I'm getting the answers I need. The listing agent is a liar, I've caught her in several already.

What sayeth the hive mind? I have no clue about the home buying process aside from E36 M3 I've heard and read. I'm trying hard to educate myself and need a hand.

Thanks in advance!

RX Reven'
RX Reven' Dork
4/12/17 5:20 p.m.

40K sounds really high.

I put a new roof on my last house (tiles that look like shake) 18 years ago and it was 10K for 2,150 Sq. Ft. which comes to $4.65 per Sq. Ft. 2% compounding inflation for 18 years comes to a 40% increase putting us at $6.51 per Sq. Ft. so 45’ X 90’ = 4,050 Sq. Ft. X $6.51 = $26,366.

BTW, I’m in California, had to have the roof covered in plywood to meet new codes, and upgraded to the highest gage tarpaper underlayment available so 26K seems like a worst case scenario.

PeterAK
PeterAK Dork
4/12/17 5:27 p.m.

That roof quote sounds super expensive. I would expect it to be half that based on having four roofs done on my rentals in the last two years here in the Midwest.

Cousin_Eddie
Cousin_Eddie Reader
4/12/17 5:41 p.m.

Here where I am in Texas, you'd be ballpark at 10k for a roof with new decking on a structure that size assuming no other mitigating factors.

I recently (last year) bought my house and it needed a roof. My inspector popped them on the roof. I told the seller that the roof was a deal killer. The lady seller filed the roof on her homeowner's insurance. Insurance put a new roof on the house the week before we closed. In my case, my realtor was solid and wrote papers to the effect that we would walk without getting a new roof in the deal. No muss, no fuss, and the seller even let me pick the shingle color.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
4/12/17 5:43 p.m.

I agree, $40K sounds kind of high. I just did my house for $10K, including replacing 30 sheets of plywood.

If it's a simple roof, I'd look into laying some 5V crimp metal roof right on top of the shingles and doing it myself.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
4/12/17 5:51 p.m.

$40K is absurd, unless it's slate.

Most roofs are waay under $10K. Basic reroofs are typically closer to half that.

APEowner
APEowner Reader
4/12/17 5:57 p.m.

Good for you for shopping within your budget rather than what the bank thinks you can afford.

That roof price does sound high but that sort of thing is really regional and the only way to get an accurate value for building projects is to get multiple bids.

Similarly insurance regulations vary from state to state so while I've never lived anywhere that the insurance co would cancel your policy because of a bad roof that doesn't mean that it can't happen elsewhere.

What I would do is place an offer with the usual contingencies, including a building inspection and then re-negotiate if/when the roof issue comes up. Try and get references for a good building inspector as well. Some of them are completely worthless. Others will do a thorough job and stand behind their inspection with a one year home warranty that covers, among other things, the roof.

Once the roof and probably other items are officially brought to the sellers attention you can re-negotiate the price or try to have the seller fix the issues before closing. Keep in mind that the seller can hold firm on the price at which point you'll either have to suck it up or walk away.

Regardless of whether or not you get the cost of the roof covered in the purchase one way or the other make sure that it's in your personal budget pretty early on.

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy PowerDork
4/12/17 6:35 p.m.

Yeah, I had six quotes on my first house - all over the place. Get more quotes. I also did a long driveway - lots of quotes.

My favorite was a guy pulls up in a sweet black GMC truck and never gets out. He drives to the back, backs up and gives me the highest verbal quote of them all. I figured he was tired of being "another quote".

sesto elemento
sesto elemento SuperDork
4/12/17 9:00 p.m.

What is the consensus on steel roofs? They would seem to me to be a longer term solution than shingles.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof PowerDork
4/12/17 9:08 p.m.

There is no good reason to use shingles. Steel is the way to go. Not much more, and you'll never do another roof

oldtin
oldtin PowerDork
4/12/17 9:13 p.m.

Any recent hail/storms in the area? Costs go wonky when that happens. I would think under $100/square (100 s/f)for a tear off and under $65 for overlay of existing (if code allows it).

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UltimaDork
4/12/17 9:15 p.m.

Ive always heard here in the south that steel roofing leaks more, causes condensation and rot issues, and creates more heat in the summer. I have no idea how valid that is, but this seems to have derailed into a roofing thread...

sesto elemento
sesto elemento SuperDork
4/12/17 9:27 p.m.

The whole process frankly scares the E36 M3 out of me. This property really ticks a lot of the boxes. It's on the water (but not vulnerable to flood stuff), it's on my favorite road. It's got enough garage to do what I need to do and room to grow. It's gonna be tight though

sesto elemento
sesto elemento SuperDork
4/12/17 9:31 p.m.
oldtin wrote: Any recent hail/storms in the area? Costs go wonky when that happens. I would think under $100/square (100 s/f)for a tear off and under $65 for overlay of existing (if code allows it).

No hailstorm activity in my recent memory.

carguy123
carguy123 UltimaDork
4/12/17 10:34 p.m.

If you are going to get financing the house must have a serviceable roof. We see this all the time and the Seller's insurance company ponies up for the roof prior to appraisal & closing. I've got one we're doing that way right now.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/13/17 6:39 a.m.
oldtin wrote: Any recent hail/storms in the area? Costs go wonky when that happens. I would think under $100/square (100 s/f)for a tear off and under $65 for overlay of existing (if code allows it).

I design roofs for a living and $100/square will not cover materials.

WilD
WilD HalfDork
4/13/17 6:52 a.m.

I'm a bit confused by some of the posts. Why would an insurance company pay to replace an old roof? I was under the impression they woul typically pay for soecific storm or fire damage, and probably take into account depreciation in any older materials that are damaged.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
4/13/17 7:13 a.m.

The bottom line is that, you cannot afford the house unless you can afford what it costs to make it move-in ready. Some repairs can be put off and done over time, but safety and code issues have to be dealt with up front. You may be able to negotiate these things into the purchase, lowering the price so that you don't exceed your total budget. Keep in mind, even after all the inspections, you will have costs associated with a new house (closing costs, PMI, moving costs, new locks, transferring utilities, etc) and you will find at least $5K in costs that you didn't foresee.

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
4/13/17 8:26 a.m.

Just had the roof done on my shop. 1000sq ft with estimates in the $6k-$7k range. plywood was ~$60 per sheet additional over that price (have to take the shingles off to see what you are in for).

Price will vary depending on the slope of the roof. Architectural shingles were an extra $6-800 for mine (advantages: longer warranty/life expectancy and instead of 60mph winds, we are good to closer to 100mph winds.)

I live just south of DC for regional purposes.

Best advice: Get SEVERAL quotes. My quotes varied quite a bit.

regarding steel roofs, I asked the roofers about it. It is MUCH more expensive. Mine would have been $20k at least.

STM317
STM317 Dork
4/13/17 8:37 a.m.

There are things that can alter the roofing cost quite a bit. Roof pitch, the design of the roof (hip roof vs standard vs flat), material, full tear off or just lay new roofing over the top, etc. Without more details, or knowing regional pricing, the best advise is to get several quotes, and use the highest quote as a bargaining chip during negotiations with the seller.

I'll second the guys saying that there are several other costs that are easily overlooked during the buying process. Things like furniture, appliances, lawn care equipment can all add up to a very large number very quickly. Don't spend your entire wad on the house up front, and leave yourself with nothing to cover other expenses that will come up. Hopefully a thorough inspection will alert you to any impending issues that you'd need to budget for right away, or in the near-term future.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
4/13/17 9:04 a.m.
SVreX wrote: $40K is absurd, unless it's slate. Most roofs are waay under $10K. Basic reroofs are typically closer to half that.

On a 45x90 building?

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
4/13/17 9:29 a.m.

Your friend is correct. Insurance will not write a policy on a house that needs a roof. Period.

You may want your agent to send someone out to inspect and then you can explain to the seller "You won't be able to sell the house period if you don't replace the roof. Replace and adjust the price accordingly"

If you can't afford the cost of the house with the price of a new roof, then you'll just have to adjust your budget down and look for a new property.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
4/13/17 9:36 a.m.
carguy123 wrote: If you are going to get financing the house must have a serviceable roof. We see this all the time and the Seller's insurance company ponies up for the roof prior to appraisal & closing. I've got one we're doing that way right now.

Key word being the HOUSE. The garage is a separate building. Since it's not part of the habitable structure, things can be a bit more lenient there.

Example: We bought a small farm-type property. Many of the outbuildings (including one fairly good-sized 16 x 35 "run-in" )were in very poor condition. Some with roofs that were partially missing. But the house roof was fine. No issues with home inspection or the finance company. Standard-type financing. YMMV, of course.

We did just pay to have the roof replaced on one outbuilding that we are currently renovating from a barn into a guest house. It's going to be a nearly complete gut and re-do. 700 sq foot of living space, with a 700 sq foot garage underneath. Building is 24 x 30, standard A-frame roof of a moderate pitch and slight overhang, so two roof sections of 15 x 32 or so. Total about 1000 sq feet of roofing. We got estimates all over the place, from about 11k to 18k. This was for steel roof- the building already had steel, but it was in very poor shape, so it all had to be ripped off and started fresh from the rafters. We were also quoted about 8k to do it in shingle, but we want all the roofs on the property to match, so we stuck with steel and picked a quote about mid-way, which was $13,500. This also included new soffets, new gutters, and flashing around a chimney- plus some repair work that added a little to the original estimate ($75) and was unforeseen.

The guy did such a great job we contracted with him to do most of the rest of the renovation. Right now he's just finishing up new windows and a complete gut of the building that filled a huge construction dumpster.

For reference, we're in the suburbs of Baltimore, MD.

That works out to around $13-$14 per square foot of roof. On your 45 x 90 building, assuming a standard A-frame construction, you'd be looking at 4400 square feet of roof, or nearly 60K- for a complete tear off and redo in steel. If you went with regular shingle, based on my estimate for shingle, you'd be around $35,000. If you can do it yourself, figure roughly half that for material. If you don't need a completely new roof (new plywood and such) the price comes down somewhat.

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy UltraDork
4/13/17 1:39 p.m.

I just paid our roofer earlier this week

15 square, new plywood sheeting, modern version of old 15# roof paper, and 25 year GAF shingles - $9,200

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/13/17 2:10 p.m.
oldeskewltoy wrote: I just paid our roofer earlier this week 15 square, new plywood sheeting, modern version of old 15# roof paper, and 25 year GAF shingles - $9,200

$6.13 / Foot or $613/square. This is in line with what I am seeing up here in MA for small jobs.

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