Living with a car from the future: Tesla Model 3

Keith Tanner said:

Thanks for joining! Maybe you can add some perspective on the charging infrastructure development.

They broke ground for a new Supercharger in Montrose last week, which will give us more options for future trips to Durango. But what's interesting about that is that it will be a shared Supercharger/ChargePoint station so it will have options for Tesla, CCS and CHAdeMo. This is the first shared station I'm aware of. Are you doing that sort of thing in your city?

At the moment, no, no real shared charging stations for both Tesla and other standards. The whole thing with where, how and when charging points are established is quite a complex thing here. Where I live, Skellefteå in the northern part of Sweden, it's quite sparsely populated so there is an ongoing discussion about what the market should build purely based on profitable charging points, and what the community needs to push forward to enable a shift towards EV's. There is a risk that the "countryside" is left behind if only shortsighted economics are factored in. On the other hand, the community should not "disturb" the market unnecessarily.

Gustaf

That's a very typical struggle when dealing with infrastructure, I think. The benefit to the few versus the cost to the many.

In the US, the Tesla superchargers showed up in odd places. Little towns that don't need a Supercharger because there are no EVs - until you realize that the charger isn't for them. It's for everyone who's going from one place to another and the little town happens to be on the way. 

How many people in Sweden can charge at home? Are the charging points mostly for local owners or for visitors?

Keith Tanner said:

That's a very typical struggle when dealing with infrastructure, I think. The benefit to the few versus the cost to the many.

In the US, the Tesla superchargers showed up in odd places. Little towns that don't need a Supercharger because there are no EVs - until you realize that the charger isn't for them. It's for everyone who's going from one place to another and the little town happens to be on the way. 

How many people in Sweden can charge at home? Are the charging points mostly for local owners or for visitors?

There's also the "which comes first the chicken or the egg" issue with a new infrastructure. A few years ago when Diesel fuel was expensive I sat through a bunch of SAE conferences where engine and truck manufactures said that they had CNG trucks and engines ready to go as soon as there were fueling stations and the CNG fueling station companies said we've got stations to install as soon as there are trucks on the road.  In the end fuel prices dropped and nobody sold anything.  One of the reasons that Tesla is able to drive demand for pure electric cars is that they're spending money on both the infrastructure and the cars.

Agreed. Building out the Supercharger network was absolutely required, and it's still a big advantage that Tesla has over the rest of the industry. I probably wouldn't have seriously considered an EV without it. Took some serious investment though.

The fact that they were building the network themselves also meant they could control the experience and make it painless. There are so many stories (including at least one in this thread as well as one in the GRM Taycan drive iirc) about Electrify America charging experiences that involved long calls to tech support. It sucks that we have all these conflicting standards but without Tesla's investment and streamlined experience the whole EV industry would be further behind. I have no idea what it will look like 10 years from now in the US in particular. Europe will be in better shape due to the adoption of the CCS standard for Tesla chargers there. 

Generally speaking, most people in Sweden can charge at home. Especially here in the north where private homes/villas are quite dominant. All houses also have 3-phase 400 V connection to the grid so the conditions are good.

That is actually something that slows the public infrastructure a bit. Some of my "colleagues" in the municipal management says "we don't need to build very many public charging points since most people will mostly charge at home". Just as you say, yes, true - but we want visitors to our city to be able to charge. And we want to charge when we visit other places.

Interesting that the CNG example was brought up. One of my previous projects was about biogas (simply put, CNG that is not fossile but produced from household waste). When the city started looking at a plant, and the upgrading facility to convert raw gas to vehicle gas, some people said "but there is noone driving CNG cars". Of course not, there are no filling stations! Therefor the city decided to invest in a CNG fleet to deploy when the production plant was up and running. Now all our city buses run on biogas, many taxis and municipal vehicles as well and some private persons has joined in. We now also have a private actor running a biogas filling station.

Gustaf

Update for no particular reason with a bunch of stuff that's been bouncing around my head.

Janel thanked me the other day for pushing her towards her little black car. Left to her own devices, she would have picked up a 2019 Grand Cherokee because it was so familiar. But she's really bonded with the car and has even started using the voice control.

We're still not driving much these days, but when we do it's the EV because it's just so easy. Something it took me a while to cotton on to is the fact that it doesn't need to warm up the way an ICE does. The heater works right away, there are no weird driving quirks as everything comes up to temp, no fast idle. It just goes. It's very easy to get used to that.

Something else I notice when jumping back and forth is how much I've come to use regen and one-pedal driving. I've altered my driving style so I never need more braking than the motors can provide. It's a bit like going between a stick shift and an automatic, you notice how the automatic doesn't have any engine braking. It's actually quite a good way of illustrating just how much energy you waste in an ICE when you can't recover any of momentum you've built up.  It's quite rare I have to go for the friction brakes.

I had to make a run to Phoenix a couple of weeks ago, which takes me right through the middle of nowhere. When Monument Valley is on the way, it's a pretty desolate route :) Turns out there are Superchargers on the way so I could have done the trip quite handily in the Tesla, but since I was schlepping tools and wheels I figured it was safer to bring the big pickup instead of suffering the wrath of Janel.

The car is starting to show some signs of use. It's picked up a rock chip with a small dent right beside the headlight - those must be some thin fenders and/or a fairly high speed rock. Not much we can do about that, it's part of being a car. It also had a scuff on the rear bumper from a box loading mishap. My friend Travis is much better with a buffer than I and was able to bring it back. The fixed section looks so good I may have to wax the thing...

The car's continued to evolve a bit. There was an update recently that changed the interface on the main screen to allow for more useful real estate - it's a good redesign. A couple of icons got moved to the bottom row and the image of the car got bigger so it can better display cars around you. I'm not usually a fan of interface changes but this works better. Everything you use frequently is in the same place and there's more space for stuff you need.

Here's the new look.

Icons along the top are info. Icons along the bottom are permanent, they're basically buttons. Most of them have voice control equivalents. 
From left:
Car settings (opens a window to adjust things like throttle response and just about every aspect of configuration, some of which is only accessible when you're in Park)
Audio control (opens a window to select source, station, play/pause, etc. Driver can control play/pause/skip/volume from the steering wheel)
Displays the rear/side cameras. Basically the same as if you were backing up.
Wipers (they're usually automatic and you can trigger a swipe with the stalk, this is for changing modes)
Carnet opens a secondary menu for stuff like streaming video, internet, "call" (which is an odd one), energy displays and generally the sort of stuff you use to entertain yourself when you're parked. I rarely use this one.
Driver seat heater
Fan speed
Set temp for HVAC
Passenger seat heater
Windshield defrost
Rear window defrost
Passenger's volume control (the driver has one on the steering wheel)
 

Here's what it used to look like. In both cases, when you're driving, the car on the left moves to a following view and it displays cars around you as well. Now it also shows street signs and traffic lights (you can turn both of those off) as well as 360* radar proximity so you can tell if something's close.

I noticed while riding shotgun the other day that the little picture of the car on the right side of the screen is detailed enough that you can actually see the little car on the screen in the little car on the screen when you're driving :) It zooms in like this when you're not moving. The phone camera didn't like all the pixels, but if you squint you can see it. This little car has been getting higher and higher resolution as time goes on. I swear it shows cloud reflections in the roof when you're moving.

This infrastructure talk reminds me of the rural electrification program. I had to go to a remote Native American community to get them fixed up. They oddly wanted me to start with the bathrooms. 
 

you could say I was the first to wire a head for a reservation. 
 

rim shot. I'll be here all week. 

Also- my brother in law bought a model three all wheel drive long range. Let me drive it last weekend. I've never been in a car that literally (yes, I'm using the word in the correct manner), LITERALLY took my breath away when I floored it. I was ready for a "fast car" acceleration, and it was another level above that. Maybe two. I gasped and said "oh my". It is wildly faster than my 62 Midget is going to be despite all the work I'm doing to it. Also, everything about it screams "the FUTURE".  We will purchase one in the next few years. I never touched the brake either in a 20 minute test drive. So weird. I wanted to test out those beautiful monobloc calipers too. 

Would it be weird to have a challenger hellcat and a model three in the garage?

That's the model I have. I think it's the immediate hit that's breathtaking, it just goes. No drama, no warning, just WHAM you get punched in the chest.

Teh E36 M3 said:

Would it be weird to have a challenger hellcat and a model three in the garage?

My garage includes a 500 hp Miata, a 400 hp MG and a 400 hp BMW along with the Tesla. I don't see anything wrong with having a few noisy cars in the stable :)

Teh E36 M3 said:

This infrastructure talk reminds me of the rural electrification program. I had to go to a remote Native American community to get them fixed up. They oddly wanted me to start with the bathrooms. 
 

you could say I was the first to wire a head for a reservation. 
 

rim shot. I'll be here all week. 

Did you make moose turd pie?

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Teh E36 M3 said:

This infrastructure talk reminds me of the rural electrification program. I had to go to a remote Native American community to get them fixed up. They oddly wanted me to start with the bathrooms. 
 

you could say I was the first to wire a head for a reservation. 
 

rim shot. I'll be here all week. 

Did you make moose turd pie?

 

Hahaha- deep cut! Utah Phillips was a bit of a blow hard but still a funny ass dude. 

Oh- MY GOD MAN! Thats moose turd pie! 

It's good though..... 

I feel like I'm a gandy dancer through life.

Keith Tanner said:

That's the model I have. I think it's the immediate hit that's breathtaking, it just goes. No drama, no warning, just WHAM you get punched in the chest.

Teh E36 M3 said:

Would it be weird to have a challenger hellcat and a model three in the garage?

My garage includes a 500 hp Miata, a 400 hp MG and a 400 hp BMW along with the Tesla. I don't see anything wrong with having a few noisy cars in the stable :)

It's crazy that the difference in the performance and the dual motor is just software. My BIL showed me he could download the performance settings while we were driving if he wanted the extra speed. Soooooo weird. I also found it weird that when in self driving mode, it drove more aggressively than me.

Teh E36 M3 said:

Keith Tanner said:

That's the model I have. I think it's the immediate hit that's breathtaking, it just goes. No drama, no warning, just WHAM you get punched in the chest.

Teh E36 M3 said:

Would it be weird to have a challenger hellcat and a model three in the garage?

My garage includes a 500 hp Miata, a 400 hp MG and a 400 hp BMW along with the Tesla. I don't see anything wrong with having a few noisy cars in the stable :)

It's crazy that the difference in the performance and the dual motor is just software. My BIL showed me he could download the performance settings while we were driving if he wanted the extra speed. Soooooo weird. I also found it weird that when in self driving mode, it drove more aggressively than me.

It's not just software. The Performance does have a bigger rear motor. But the speed boost that you can buy via your phone gets you halfway there. I don't know if it's applied immediately or if it needs a software update. 

ok roger that. I can't believe I'm saying this... I wouldn't *need* more speed. That motherberkeleyer is fast. I don't mean like metaphorically fast. I guess the real question is how it handles- I didn't put it through its paces.

I have not felt the need to pony up for the acceleration boost!

Have you been able to see how much power the heater uses when its real cold outside  ?

It must  work pretty good with all the Teslas sold in Norway :)

I'd assume the heater does most of its job when it is plugged in- you can set that dude up to heat the car before you even leave. That's how I'd do it anyway.

It definitely uses more power to heat than cool - that was apparent last year. The heat pump models are likely better at this, but I suspect there are some laws of thermodynamics at work. 

Remember we did take a road trip through the high mountains last year during a February snowstorm. The range hit wasn't noticeable enough to make us change our plans on the trip versus a summer drive. The biggest thing you notice is that cold batteries can't take power as quickly, so regen is limited when they're cold because there's nowhere for the power to go.

Being able to pre-heat when it's plugged in is a real bonus. It also starts making heat very quickly, faster than a cold-soaked ICE comes to temp. And the car has five heated seats because it's more efficient to heat the meat than the air :)

Keith Tanner said:Being able to pre-heat when it's plugged in is a real bonus. ... And the car has five heated seats because it's more efficient to heat the meat than the air :)

Absolutely true, and I LOVE seat heaters (and I don't think Rebecca will ever consider another DD that doesn't have them), but I do have to say that on the Leaf it was no substitute for cabin heat, but that thing had way less range than a 3, so you knew it when you were making those tradeoffs. At one point we were rationing bursts of defrost. We still miss the heated steering wheel, though; the Mini doesn't have that.

My 62 midget project will not have a heater but will have heated seats. Gotta heat the meat. 

In reply to Teh E36 M3 :

In line with my thoughts on the Leaf, the BGT will have both, I hope :-)

No heated Momo Prototipos out there, though.

Jesse Ransom (FFS) said:

In reply to Teh E36 M3 :

In line with my thoughts on the Leaf, the BGT will have both, I hope :-)

No heated Momo Prototipos out there, though.

Retrofitting steering wheel heat to a Prototipo would be a really interesting project. Really, it's just wires under the leather. What could go wrong?

Unrequested update!

The Tesla continues to be a car. It's the go-to for everything because it's just so easy. Unplug, jump in and go. I took the M5 out the other day and had to go through the whole procedure of coaxing it to full temperature - that's definitely a needier car than most modern vehicles, but its quiet black stablemate really brings this point home. The BMW does make much more entertaining noises, though.

Now that the weather is starting to warm up, I'm abusing the "keep the climate control running" feature so the car is always cool when we get in. For day to day use, the range hit is irrelevant. My personal HVAC system deals better with cold than heat so this is a huge luxury to me.

There are Teslas everywhere in town. We can't leave the house without seeing 4-5 of them. This may not be notable in places like San Francisco but remember I'm talking about a small town in rural Colorado that's 300 miles or so from the nearest Tesla presence. It's a mix of all the post-Roadster models. Mostly 3 but the Y are gaining. I have not yet spotted a VW or Ford EV, although I understand there is one of the latter in the county. We do see occasional Bolts but they're outnumbered by the Teslas. I also saw some weird old EV the other day - a Vanguard CityCar, I think. I missed my chance to park beside it and get a picture, it would have been fun. Here's one beside a Tesla X, which is bigger than our 3. But not THAT much bigger...

More Superchargers are popping up in the area - the new one in Montrose has made a trip to Durango easier. Before, a day trip there and back would have required taking an alternate route through Utah. An overnight is more plausible, so a destination charger would have been the solution. That's a work trip for Janel so I'm not sure if she'd have to do any tapdancing to select a particular hotel. We always could have plugged in to a fast charger on a different network but the Tesla network is just so simple to use and find. Regardless, it's no longer an issue. The run to Denver has gained a few more options as well...not that we've driven to Denver in over a year. Sigh.

I have been tempted to modify the car somewhat. It's just begging for some suspension and wheels to give it a little more authority in how it sits on the tires, but that would make it less good at being what it is. The marketing speak on Unplugged Performance's website for suspension also sets off the bullE36 M3 detector pretty hard. So maybe I'll just take off the aero hubcaps for a change instead :)

So, yeah. It's just a car. And it's proving to be pretty good at it.

Keith Tanner said:

I have not felt the need to pony up for the acceleration boost!

What is it like to get one for a test drive?  

We walked into the Tesla "showroom" in the Pine Meadows mall in Denver and they had us in a car about 10 minutes later. No "are you planning to buy today" bull or games about hiding our keys. We did get a couple of follow-up calls from them to see if we had any more questions but it was really low key.