I'm not an owner, just an FD admirer, and was curious if any members of the GRM hive have experience with these awesome cars. Would love to see photos of member cars, would be a welcome respite from the usual stance/widebody/Instagram clout cars you see so much of on social media.
Paging Codrus....
Heh, yes I have one. :). "build thread" (there's not much actual "building" going on) is here:
I'm a long way from an expert on the FD though. Lots more knowledge on rx7club.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Heh, yes I have one. :). "build thread" (there's not much actual "building" going on) is here:
I'm a long way from an expert on the FD though. Lots more knowledge on rx7club.
Thanks for posting codrus, I had seen your build thread before and enjoyed seeing the tweaks and restoration work you have done over the years. Do you ever autocross or track the car? I see less and less FDs competing as they become increasingly rare and expensive.
And here's a buyer's guide for the FD, hope it helps:
Neighbor has two, one an LS swap and the other a shell. Got to drive his at an autocross. Good chassis, tight fit.
c0rbin9 said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Heh, yes I have one. :). "build thread" (there's not much actual "building" going on) is here:
I'm a long way from an expert on the FD though. Lots more knowledge on rx7club.
Thanks for posting codrus, I had seen your build thread before and enjoyed seeing the tweaks and restoration work you have done over the years. Do you ever autocross or track the car? I see less and less FDs competing as they become increasingly rare and expensive.
The biggest challenge with the idea is that at 6 foot I don't really fit in the FD with a helmet on. I can autox it by leaning the seat WAY back, but I wouldn't want to do that on the track. They're a bit fragile for track use in stock condition and I don't want to modify mine too much, plus I have an M3 race car for track stuff.
I have autoxed it a couple times and would consider going more often, but even before covid shut everything down the convenient sites have kinda dried up around here and it's a 2+ hour drive to get to one.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:c0rbin9 said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Heh, yes I have one. :). "build thread" (there's not much actual "building" going on) is here:
I'm a long way from an expert on the FD though. Lots more knowledge on rx7club.
Thanks for posting codrus, I had seen your build thread before and enjoyed seeing the tweaks and restoration work you have done over the years. Do you ever autocross or track the car? I see less and less FDs competing as they become increasingly rare and expensive.
The biggest challenge with the idea is that at 6 foot I don't really fit in the FD with a helmet on. I can autox it by leaning the seat WAY back, but I wouldn't want to do that on the track. They're a bit fragile for track use in stock condition and I don't want to modify mine too much, plus I have an M3 race car for track stuff.
I have autoxed it a couple times and would consider going more often, but even before covid shut everything down the convenient sites have kinda dried up around here and it's a 2+ hour drive to get to one.
I hear you on the fitting with helmet stuff. I'm an inch shorter than you but "sit tall" so have the same problem in my Integra. I have heard FDs without sunroofs have another inch or so of headroom, so I'm hoping that's enough to not need to do any seat leaning contortions.
I have been looking for an FD for what seems like several years now, and it's not easy to come by stockish LHD ones. My criteria are pretty strict (only an R1/R2 in red) so that doesn't help, but they're still very rare in general.
c0rbin9 said:I have been looking for an FD for what seems like several years now, and it's not easy to come by stockish LHD ones. My criteria are pretty strict (only an R1/R2 in red) so that doesn't help, but they're still very rare in general.
Unless you're looking for the collector value (in which case you're better off with a CYM), IMHO there's not much reason to demand an R1/R2 these days. It had a second oil cooler, a sunroof delete, some suede seats, and some different shocks (and maybe springs, not sure), and you'll pay a lot less for a base model (to get the sunroof delete) with some aftermarket suspension that's better than the R1's bilsteins.
I've been seeing RHD models around lately. Apparently it's cheaper to import one from Japan than buy a US spec one.
The nice thing is, starting this year, the Series 7s will start to be legal to import. They have a much simpler vacuum/solenoid system to control the turbos compared to the Series 6 ('92-95), having it all incorporated into a contained unit instead of a bunch of discrete solenoids and the infamous 88 hoses that crack/split/fall off and have calibrated restrictions in them that people fail to duplicate when they replace hoses. IIRC the catalyst train is also vastly freer-flowing and less likely to cause problems.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:c0rbin9 said:I have been looking for an FD for what seems like several years now, and it's not easy to come by stockish LHD ones. My criteria are pretty strict (only an R1/R2 in red) so that doesn't help, but they're still very rare in general.
Unless you're looking for the collector value (in which case you're better off with a CYM), IMHO there's not much reason to demand an R1/R2 these days. It had a second oil cooler, a sunroof delete, some suede seats, and some different shocks (and maybe springs, not sure), and you'll pay a lot less for a base model (to get the sunroof delete) with some aftermarket suspension that's better than the R1's bilsteins.
I think a lot of people feel that way, and it makes sense because the R1/R2 package is just bolt-ons, and the stock suspension whether base or the Bilsteins would be so old and worn by now that it's irrelevant.
The main reason I want an R1/R2 is because I like the R1/R2 equipment so much that I would be adding literally every single component of the package (front and rear spoilers, front strut brace, second oil cooler, synthetic suede seat fabric, upgraded suspension), so to me it's worth just waiting for an example that already has those things, i.e. a genuine R1/R2. It's also difficult to find a base model with a black interior... seems a lot are tan.
In theory it shouldn't be that hard, as they made a decent number of R1s, and Vintage Red was their most common color. Unfortunately I think R1s were more likely to be used as a platform for modifications or swaps, and there are less available now as a result.
In reply to c0rbin9 :
Another thing to consider is that R2s are pretty rare because the vast, vast majority of FDs sold in the US were '93s. And people pooh-poohed the R2 when it was new because it was detuned/softened compared to the R1. I'm too lazy to look up the numbers, I'd like to say that FD sales in '95 were in the four digits range and R2s were a vanishingly small percentage of that, and '94 splits the difference.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to c0rbin9 :
Another thing to consider is that R2s are pretty rare because the vast, vast majority of FDs sold in the US were '93s. And people pooh-poohed the R2 when it was new because it was detuned/softened compared to the R1. I'm too lazy to look up the numbers, I'd like to say that FD sales in '95 were in the four digits range and R2s were a vanishingly small percentage of that, and '94 splits the difference.
Yep, I don't think I have ever seen an r2 for sale in the time I have been looking!
Out of the ~14k LHD FDs imported to the US though, more than 1k of them were R1s, and most of those were red. So red R1s at least are not super duper rare.
The main issue with FDs is the tuner culture has made it very difficult to find stock or lightly modified examples. Only about a third of the original ~14k were still registered (as of 2015... probably even fewer now), and most of those are what I would consider in poor shape. Huge attrition rate from wrecks and ill-advised modifications, just like all the 90s Japanese super sports cars.
c0rbin9 said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:c0rbin9 said:I have been looking for an FD for what seems like several years now, and it's not easy to come by stockish LHD ones. My criteria are pretty strict (only an R1/R2 in red) so that doesn't help, but they're still very rare in general.
Unless you're looking for the collector value (in which case you're better off with a CYM), IMHO there's not much reason to demand an R1/R2 these days. It had a second oil cooler, a sunroof delete, some suede seats, and some different shocks (and maybe springs, not sure), and you'll pay a lot less for a base model (to get the sunroof delete) with some aftermarket suspension that's better than the R1's bilsteins.
I think a lot of people feel that way, and it makes sense because the R1/R2 package is just bolt-ons, and the stock suspension whether base or the Bilsteins would be so old and worn by now that it's irrelevant.
The main reason I want an R1/R2 is because I like the R1/R2 equipment so much that I would be adding literally every single component of the package (front and rear spoilers, front strut brace, second oil cooler, synthetic suede seat fabric, upgraded suspension), so to me it's worth just waiting for an example that already has those things, i.e. a genuine R1/R2. It's also difficult to find a base model with a black interior... seems a lot are tan.
In theory it shouldn't be that hard, as they made a decent number of R1s, and Vintage Red was their most common color. Unfortunately I think R1s were more likely to be used as a platform for modifications or swaps, and there are less available now as a result.
Hm, I thought the base models all had black cloth seats, and that the tan leather was only on the Touring.
But yes, the most common US FD is a red '93 Touring with the tan leather -- which is what I have.
As for the R1s, IIRC they came in 3 colors in '93, red, CYM, and black, with about 300-400 of each.
In reply to c0rbin9 :
...which is why people are starting to import them from Japan 
IIRC, according to Mazda, something close to 14,000 FDs and 7,000 FCs are still registered in Japan, which is why they are ramping up production of certain parts for these cars.
I find it somewhat amusing, as an outsider who grew up automotively in the shadow of the American malaise era, that the Japanese "newer is better" mindset seems to be shifting towards nostalgia for the cars of the 90s and even 80s, and these older cars are being kept around instead of scrapped in favor of the next new thing... because there are no more next new things. See also: Toyota naming one of their cars after an 80s icon, Nissan restoring/remanufacturing R32 GT-Rs.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:c0rbin9 said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:c0rbin9 said:I have been looking for an FD for what seems like several years now, and it's not easy to come by stockish LHD ones. My criteria are pretty strict (only an R1/R2 in red) so that doesn't help, but they're still very rare in general.
Unless you're looking for the collector value (in which case you're better off with a CYM), IMHO there's not much reason to demand an R1/R2 these days. It had a second oil cooler, a sunroof delete, some suede seats, and some different shocks (and maybe springs, not sure), and you'll pay a lot less for a base model (to get the sunroof delete) with some aftermarket suspension that's better than the R1's bilsteins.
I think a lot of people feel that way, and it makes sense because the R1/R2 package is just bolt-ons, and the stock suspension whether base or the Bilsteins would be so old and worn by now that it's irrelevant.
The main reason I want an R1/R2 is because I like the R1/R2 equipment so much that I would be adding literally every single component of the package (front and rear spoilers, front strut brace, second oil cooler, synthetic suede seat fabric, upgraded suspension), so to me it's worth just waiting for an example that already has those things, i.e. a genuine R1/R2. It's also difficult to find a base model with a black interior... seems a lot are tan.
In theory it shouldn't be that hard, as they made a decent number of R1s, and Vintage Red was their most common color. Unfortunately I think R1s were more likely to be used as a platform for modifications or swaps, and there are less available now as a result.
Hm, I thought the base models all had black cloth seats, and that the tan leather was only on the Touring.
But yes, the most common US FD is a red '93 Touring with the tan leather -- which is what I have.
As for the R1s, IIRC they came in 3 colors in '93, red, CYM, and black, with about 300-400 of each.
Base cars could be optioned with leather seats (as well as the spoilers), so there are base models with tan leather interiors.
Here are USDM FD production numbers by trim/color:
http://www.rotarywiki.com/index.php?title=FD3S:USDM_Production_Numbers
According to that, Berlina Black R1s were more rare than the one-year-only CYM - interesting. Also shows Vintage Red prod #s.
c0rbin9 said:Would love to see photos of member cars, would be a welcome respite from the usual stance/widebody/Instagram clout cars you see so much of on social media.
Yes! They're so nice looking in stock form. Here's my '93 R1 with 79k on it:
The previous owner deleted the wing when the car was resprayed. I'm torn on reinstalling one, but will likely do it if I can find a good stock one affordably. I recently received a vacuum hose and capsule kit and some stock replacement parts in the mail, so I'm tearing into it soon to make sure everything is good to go. My goal with this car is to have a mostly stock (maybe OEM+) example that I can enjoy whenever I want. It came to me with a couple of thoughtful mechanical upgrades, tasteless aftermarket headlights, and missing some trim that I've since sourced. I feel like it is coming together after tinkering for a year or so. I've put less than 1000 miles on it so far.
In reply to Powar :
Very nice looking example of a near-stock R1, and I like that you are carefully restoring it with an eye toward preservation. There can't be many left that are near stock.
It's difficult to improve upon the factory aesthetics of the FD, IMO. Aftermarket wheels are pretty much the only thing I would add to the exterior, but even that comes with trade offs since any aftermarket wheel will likely be heavier than the stock FD wheels, which were very light in their earliest versions (only ~13.8 lbs. for a 16 x 8 wheel IIRC... that's lighter than the current cheap lightweight king, the Enkei RPF1).
IIRC there are three different constructions of the OEM wheels with different weights. The early ones tended to crack so they reinforced them a couple times which made them heavier. Visually from the outside they all look the same though.
Not mine
Once upon a time I had 3 93s at the same time. A red R1, a Red base model and a modded Monaco Blue (I believe was the name).
I bought the base model with blown turbo hoses and she thought it was blown seals. That was a cheap but hard fix.
I never had a problem with any of them, but I thought of them like 2 cycle engines and did a bake test to see which oils burned without ash and used that. I used the oil pumps and never premixed. With the wrong oil you can wear out the seals.
I traded up to an S2000 which was pretty much the same feeling car. My wife wants me to look for another RX and I may have to accomodate her. It was a more versatile car what with a top and a storage area behind the seats.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
At an Ohio Rotaries meet, someone showed up with a very clean R1. I commented that having stock wheels was pretty rare since most of them cracked...
*looks down*
...just like this wheel is.
Oops.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:...just like this wheel is.
Yeah, that's one reason my OEM wheels aren't on the car. They aren't cracked, but I don't trust them.
Had a '93 Touring years ago that I had Peter Farrell put some mods on for me down in Manassas. Car was a beast with the low, med, and high switch in the glove box for different boost settings. Sold it to a dentist from Canada, long way to go for a car but it was a really nice spec.
You'll need to log in to post.
