JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
5/21/15 11:44 a.m.

Sometimes a thought pops into my head that would be fun to expand into a column, but then I start writing and it turns out there’s just not 800 words of interest there. So here are some of those snippets stuffed together to make a nice casserole of quick bites.

1. From time to time, a story circula…

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GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
5/21/15 11:57 a.m.

I can do better on the "autocross isn't real racing" debate, I think I've come up with a rock-solid counter-argument.

What's the difference between autocross and stage rally or time trials? They're all timed competitions along a finite course where cars do not race head-to-head. Yet, curiously, nobody has ever argued that the WRC or Isle of Man TT aren't "real racing."

There is one thing that's different about autocross though, this difference is the crux of the "prosecution's" argument but it is only implied by them and never stated. If you work down the list of potential differences you'll eventually pin it down - the difference is danger, and relatively speaking, autocross has practically none of it. Instead of celebrating this safety, the "prosecution" romanticizes danger, implicitly arguing that it's a necessary element of "real racing." This is what Bark M. of TTAC did on the latest go-round.

Edit: Yes it is a cheap argument, a bit of a "no true scotsman," but challenging it could eventually strike it down, while dismissing it leaves it to rear its ugly head another day.

bmw88rider
bmw88rider Dork
5/21/15 12:47 p.m.

Damn you JG....Quit talking about your MR2 before I send mine to Jersey for a summer vacation. :)

Oh and yes...Trainers are evil. I have 2 good friends that are trainers and I swear they get off on seeing people in pain. One was a drill Sargent in a former life so I know be gets off in seeing people in pain.

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
5/21/15 1:04 p.m.

I think many who view autocross through the lens of the words on Burt Levy in Last Open Road, "Wheres the bloody penalty?"

Stage rally and Isle of Mann TT are real to them because of the enhanced risks.

So I guess the question is, is it racing when the risks are limited?

MrJoshua
MrJoshua PowerDork
5/21/15 1:49 p.m.

Unlike pretty much ANY other form of exercise weight training never gets easier, we (trainers) can just raise the weights or change the exercise. Yes we are slightly sadistic, but it takes masochistic people to keep us on business.

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy PowerDork
5/21/15 2:05 p.m.

It's the trainer's job to take you to your limit without hurting yourself. Many people don't find this fun. Having played numerous RPGs, both in tabletop and computer form, I just look at it as leveling up.

wbjones
wbjones MegaDork
5/21/15 2:32 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: What's the difference between autocross and stage rally or time trials? They're all timed competitions along a finite course where cars do not race head-to-head. Yet, curiously, nobody has ever argued that the WRC or Isle of Man TT aren't "real racing."

LOL … there are some on here that would argue that those aren't "real racing" ….

lateapexer
lateapexer New Reader
5/21/15 4:57 p.m.

Racing or not autox is my sport because of one thing... no practise. Get it right;right now.

ronbros9
ronbros9 New Reader
5/21/15 5:38 p.m.

J.G. interesting topic. like when a thought pops up, self-driving cars and robots,robots eventually taking over! back a few yrs ago 1954,when some one said becareful, or you could be replaced by an OBSOLETE robot. that said by a 15yr old girl,YIKES.

do agree Japanese cars of the late 80-early 90s, were some of the best(at least for the money). i was an RX7 guy, but much respect for most of them!

as a matter of course you should always treat your body like a Temple, not like a dumpster.(Jimmy Buffet).

thinking about gameboys argument"Dangers of racing", after some thought on it, its all about the money, the more you spend in a racing class the more danger involved, think autocross vs Indy 500, or Le Mans,or F1, list goes on, autocross is fun/family thing,relativly low cost, and dangers are minimal. but its still a lot of fun!

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
5/21/15 7:34 p.m.

Bless you JG.

  1. Auto-X is real racing. More importantly it's a stepping stone for young folks and Newbs to get a taste and possible be enticed further into track days or more.

  2. Did you know the self driving Google Car got planked; self driving race cars take the fun out of it.

A self driving race car is like sex without a woman.

  1. MR-2. Why not?

  2. a. b. & c. You didn't gain weight overnight, you won't lose it overnight.

Since retiring Mrs. 914 thought we should go to the gym 3 days a week, Oy. One night we do TRX training, it's tough but worth it. Picking up a dumbbell? Where you gonna use that skill in real life?

  1. I've been coveting an F-500 for decades !

Dan

Jerry From LA
Jerry From LA Dork
5/23/15 12:47 p.m.

Is autocross real racing or not?? The only proper answer is, "Who cares? It's fun."

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
5/23/15 1:00 p.m.

You seriously couldn't get 800 words out of a couple of those?

Quit fapping to internet porn. It's sapping all your creativity.

Knurled
Knurled UltimaDork
5/23/15 2:24 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: I can do better on the "autocross isn't real racing" debate, I think I've come up with a rock-solid counter-argument. What's the difference between autocross and stage rally or time trials? They're all timed competitions along a finite course where cars do not race head-to-head. Yet, curiously, nobody has ever argued that the WRC or Isle of Man TT aren't "real racing."

Yes they do. All the time.

jstein77
jstein77 SuperDork
5/27/15 11:01 a.m.

The 'real racing' debate reminds my of something my daughter showed me. She's a competitive swimmer, and occasionally a classmate gives her the "swimming is not a sport" line.

She has some perfect comebacks:

"Swimming is the ONLY sport; the rest are just games."

"Swimming is the only sport where you can get yelled at for breathing."

There's a bunch more like that.

rcutclif
rcutclif Dork
5/27/15 11:22 a.m.
jstein77 wrote: The 'real racing' debate reminds my of something my daughter showed me. She's a competitive swimmer, and occasionally a classmate gives her the "swimming is not a sport" line. She has some perfect comebacks: "Swimming is the ONLY sport; the rest are just games." "Swimming is the only sport where you can get yelled at for breathing." There's a bunch more like that.

"Going in hard, coming out wet." Is a common swimmers saying.

Use your own judgement telling your own kids though.

Knurled
Knurled UltimaDork
5/27/15 12:22 p.m.

Nobody's saying that it's not motorsport. It just doesn't require any psychological games to win, just driver skill.

In a race, it's not the fastest guy who wins, it's the first guy across the line....

ZOO
ZOO UltraDork
5/27/15 12:24 p.m.
lateapexer wrote: Racing or not autox is my sport because of one thing... no practise. Get it right;right now.

Great turn of phrase, Dad!

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
5/27/15 12:34 p.m.
Knurled wrote:
GameboyRMH wrote: I can do better on the "autocross isn't real racing" debate, I think I've come up with a rock-solid counter-argument. What's the difference between autocross and stage rally or time trials? They're all timed competitions along a finite course where cars do not race head-to-head. Yet, curiously, nobody has ever argued that the WRC or Isle of Man TT aren't "real racing."
Yes they do. All the time.

I'm happy to ignore those people

Knurled
Knurled UltimaDork
5/27/15 12:42 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

There are people who will jump on your throat for even using the phrase "rally racing"...

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 Dork
5/27/15 1:05 p.m.

JG, I think you could have turned #1 and 2 into one column fairly easily.

In reply to MrJoshua: Working out does get easier, but that doesn't mean that you're not supposed to get tired when you're done. Also, people can do other fitness activities like hiking, jogging, rock climbing, basketball, football, soccer, etc. plus, the fitness videos where you're doing basic movements. I did a few of those in my PE class, and I was surprised at how tired I got.

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