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David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
4/25/24 9:20 a.m.

In reply to Noddaz :

Let’s just say I’m just wondering how would things look if no classes, no trophies, no rule book (other than safety, of course). We have non-competitive track days....

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
4/25/24 9:38 a.m.

I've always wanted to try AutoX, I just can't get past 6 sub 60 second runs, and then standing in a parking lot in the Oklahoma heat for well, a heat. 

I got spoiled with HPDE's, or as Hallett calls them HST (High Speed Touring) a decade ago. AutoX was half the cost of one day for 6 minutes vs 80 minutes of drive time. And I didn't have to do any course work. Of course HST is about double the cost for a day now, but the value proposition is still there. 

 

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) MegaDork
4/25/24 10:00 a.m.

I really thought the entire purpose of autocross was to have fun. 

The biggest barrier to that is seat time versus time invested, though.

RevRico
RevRico MegaDork
4/25/24 10:06 a.m.

To me, a class winning car is not a fun car, it's more of a one trick pony. Not very fun (or entirely safe) on the street, not super comfortable to just cruise in.

But I'm not very competitive. 

Some of my best times autocrossing were coming in dead last and sideways. Yes, it felt good not being dead last sometimes, and leaving a cocky kid on a Jaguar type F behind in my beater Miata was awesome, but for me it was about pushing my limits and the cars without worrying about anything Else.

Needing to go to bigger venues and cut out seat time for work time drained a lot of the fun out of it for me once we lost our local spot. 1+hour to get there, 6 minutes of seat time, 8 hours in a parking lot and another hour home just wasn't fun anymore.

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
4/25/24 10:28 a.m.
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

I really thought the entire purpose of autocross was to have fun. 

The biggest barrier to that is seat time versus time invested, though.

It is but some kids just can't help themselves..........

HPDE suffers this fate as well; many people take it far to seriously.

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) MegaDork
4/25/24 11:15 a.m.
z31maniac said:

...standing in a parking lot in the Oklahoma heat for well, a heat. 

Technically I am a Professional Cone Attendant and it is an unparalleled view of the competition. I am considering entering the Challenge, letting the Pro drivers deal with the car and STILL working the event. Talk about being uncompetitive!

ojannen
ojannen HalfDork
4/25/24 2:14 p.m.

I stopped seriously competing in autocross when I had kids about 5 years ago.  Since then, I found rallycross was more fun when I wasn't trying to win.  If you screw up early in the day, you can start a biggest drift competition with your self.  If the course doesn't flow, you can attempt to scandi flick every corner.

Mostly though, why haven't we seen the GRM GTI at an SCCA Rallycross at The FIRM?  The next one is on May 18.

docwyte
docwyte UltimaDork
4/25/24 7:04 p.m.

I guess I've always auto-x'd for fun, as I've never run with SCCA etc. 

GCrites
GCrites Dork
4/25/24 7:59 p.m.

Thanks guys, now I'm singing "Metal Cars" to the tune of "Metal Gods" by Judas Priest

jstein77
jstein77 UberDork
4/25/24 8:12 p.m.

About 10 years ago when I still had my turbo Sentra, I also ran in the "fun" class at a PCA event.  You're right about them being a fun group, they welcomed me enthusiastically and several had stories about me being their first instructor.  Due to some worn rear tires that were slow to warm up, my first run was a little sloppy with oversteer.  I pulled up to the line for my second run, and the starter put his head in my passenger window and told me very seriously, "You have to slow down!"  I laughed and ran faster.  You'd think it wouldn't be fair running my $10,000 Sentra against all those high dollar Porches, and it wasn't.  One of them actually beat me.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
4/25/24 9:51 p.m.

In reply to GCrites :

\m/

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish)
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) UltimaDork
4/26/24 6:40 a.m.
z31maniac said:

I've always wanted to try AutoX, I just can't get past 6 sub 60 second runs, and then standing in a parking lot in the Oklahoma heat for well, a heat. 

That's the only reason I stopped autoxing many years ago.  I enjoyed it when I was on course, however that 5 minutes total just wasn't enough to offset the other 5hr 55min investment (including commute time etc...).  I wish there was a simple solution, because it truly is fun.

docwyte
docwyte UltimaDork
4/26/24 9:11 a.m.

In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :

Same here, except it's more like 9 hours spent for 6-8 40 second runs.  Just not worth it for me...

Duke
Duke MegaDork
4/26/24 10:09 a.m.

We go over this every time the topic of autocross comes up.

  • Do you enjoy the entire day as a mixed driving / social event?
    or
  • Do you only care about seat time?

There is no wrong answer to that question.

But it is not the question asked in the original post.

 

GCrites
GCrites Dork
4/26/24 10:16 a.m.
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:
z31maniac said:

I've always wanted to try AutoX, I just can't get past 6 sub 60 second runs, and then standing in a parking lot in the Oklahoma heat for well, a heat. 

That's the only reason I stopped autoxing many years ago.  I enjoyed it when I was on course, however that 5 minutes total just wasn't enough to offset the other 5hr 55min investment (including commute time etc...).  I wish there was a simple solution, because it truly is fun.

"Battle for the track" is a thing across most of amateur motorsports. Friends and family that don't understand racing come down to see you and think it's going to be like watching a soccer game or NASCAR where you'll be out there most if not all of the time. Budget endurance racing addresses that. Also track days/HDPE. Pretty much anything else you're sitting around waiting for access to the track most of the time.

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
4/26/24 1:44 p.m.

I treat autocross the same way I treat riding my dirt bike; I want to go fast and have fun.

therieldeal
therieldeal Reader
4/26/24 2:57 p.m.

My local club has three classes like this, works out quite well for those of us with oddball builds.

ProR (Race tire, car can be anything)

ProS (Street tire, car can be anything)

ProG ("Pro Geezer" - entrants are all 65+, any car, any tire)

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
4/26/24 3:12 p.m.
Duke said:

We go over this every time the topic of autocross comes up.

  • Do you enjoy the entire day as a mixed driving / social event?
    or
  • Do you only care about seat time?

There is no wrong answer to that question.

But it is not the question asked in the original post.

 

This board never strays off topic. devil

Duke
Duke MegaDork
4/26/24 3:23 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

Fair enough - myself included.

 

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
4/26/24 3:26 p.m.

We run a Pro class where everything is paxed. 

We also run Cookie Class. Open to any class car. It's a raw time class and the winner must bring good cookies to the next event. Anything from the grocery aisle doesn't count as good. 

 

 

EricM
EricM SuperDork
4/26/24 3:48 p.m.
Duke said:

We go over this every time the topic of autocross comes up.

  • Do you enjoy the entire day as a mixed driving / social event?
    or
  • Do you only care about seat time?

There is no wrong answer to that question.

But it is not the question asked in the original post.

 

yes

 

I stuggle with this.  I can barely justify 6 min of seat time.  So, I solved the problem locally.

 

I participate in TSD events.  A few hours of seat time, a lot of concentration, my wife or a friend in the co-drover (or driver seat).  speeds comparable to autocross (but not really).  lots of concentration.  Day and night events.  Car prep is a full tank of gas.  you can run your minivan, or any car that is licensed and insured.    I see parts of central Illinois that i wouldn't have seen, country bridges, small towns, stuff like that.

 

Good times.  check out your local "Time Speed Distance events.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
4/26/24 4:00 p.m.
Duke said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Fair enough - myself included.

 

No worries, just some friendly razzing. 

But I do think those responses are partially on topic. We are saying "We'd LIKE to autocross just for fun, but don't because of the time/seat time ratio."

 

RyanGreener (Forum Supporter)
RyanGreener (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
4/26/24 4:09 p.m.

Props to the folks here that drive hours to attend autocross. The only reason I can do autocross is because I have a really good venue thats 30 minutes from me.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
4/27/24 11:03 p.m.
RyanGreener (Forum Supporter) said:

Props to the folks here that drive hours to attend autocross. The only reason I can do autocross is because I have a really good venue thats 30 minutes from me.

I've got a bunch of opportunities if I'm willing to travel, and I enjoy road trips. I've been doing up to seven to eight hour round trips, which are pretty tiring in a hard S Miata. Ear plugs help mute the exhaust noise, but I think what I miss the most is cruise control. 

I'll be trailering soon, and with that I plan to extend my range. There's some events in Savanna I'd like to attend, and I've done a couple of events with a really good independent (non-SCCA) club in the Fort Meyers area that puts on two day events on a very wide and long concrete runway. 

Red Hills SCCA runs at concrete airport in Moultrie, GA. They're another fun group with well run events, they're just under four hours each way. 
 

Closer to home, Buccaneer SCCA in Jacksonville is about 2 1/2 hours each way, several friends and GRM forum members there. They just had their first event at a new venue, which was the same day as the PCA event last week. Planning to go to one soon. 

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
4/28/24 7:53 a.m.

I gave up SCCA autocross years ago after discovering the joyful experience of money-sucking HPDE's. wink The local club was full of too-serious competitors with well-thumbed rule books. And yes, the minimal seat time coupled with all-day required attendance was a negative.

A good friend of mine is in the local Corvette club and they do a few autocrosses per year, mostly as a fund raiser. Which means, they want my money, so will let me run whatever I want in their not-a-fiberglass-car class. It's cheaper than SCCA, they do all the cone shagging and it's only a half day unless I want to run two sessions. I keep threatening to run my 93 Lightning pickup to see how many Corvettes I can best. laugh 

I just got a flyer in my Summit Racing order for Drive AutoX which looks like it would be a good bang/buck ratio (2 days for $150). And no cone shagging. Limited number of events though.

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