Say you wanted to put a price on a semi rare car from the 80's that probably doesn't show up on the radar of a lot of the regular valuation lists, how would you go about it?
I've already run it through Hagerty, is that a good place to start? Or do you just look at current market sale values?
Next step, what do we like to actually sell such a beast? BAT? eBay? Craigslist (shudders)? GRM board?
Thanks in advance!
It would probably make it easier if you mention the cars brand/year/model. Some venues are better for a car but not for other.
I would take a very hard look at the availability and price of parts. Knowing that in many states the car will have to be Smog compliant should also factor in.
As close to free is a good starting point. Yes, I'm working through a similar automotive experiment.
In reply to Slippery (Forum Supporter) :
What you said. Without know what it is, we can't really make more than generic recommendations. BaT might be a good venue, but not for the worlds nicest Geo Metro, for example.
I hope the OP won't mind me answering for him, but I have the same car, a 1985 Toyota MR2. Like a lot of cars of that era, there's a dead zone in parts availability caused by being somewhere between no longer current, not really rare, and not yet a recognized collectible. The car seems to be picking up interest and decent examples are getting more money than they used to, and the OP is likely trying to validate that.
DarkMonohue, you've got it right.
I left out the details for no other reason as I didn't think it was important.
I do know they are pulling more of a premium than they did when I first owned them (early 2000's), but I'm looking to see if there a reliable, and realistic place to look for a valuation. I also understand that a car is always worth the same thing, and that thing is the price that someone is willing to pay for it.
Anyways, some details:
It's an 85 hardtop with crank windows. Driver condition, minimal (of this era I'd call it zero) corrosion. Generally unmolested except for some Eibach springs and a more-expensive-than-my-mountain-bike Fujitsubo exhaust. Interior is in very good to excellent condition, body is straight (some small dents), super red paint in okay condition. 87+ taillights and front lip (all original parts included). Tubs and boxes of spare parts (new and OEM used), the list is big. A few uninstalled performance parts (urethane bushing kit, KYB's, nothing cosmic). C50 has been replaced with a C52, engine has been resealed and it has a new clutch within the past 5,000 miles.
Not really a for sale post, but hopefully that gives the forum some perspective!
I've talked quite a bit about this car on this forum, and I've gone back and forth on selling it and keeping it for a while now, but I think that means it might be time for it to go. Like a band aid, I believe I just need to rip this one right off and get it listed. I wholeheartedly believe these cars will continue to go up in value, but the stress and anxiety of upkeep and concern about vandalism or getting into a fender bender isn't gelling well into the rest of my life and hobbies.
Go to BaT and see what they have sold for recently and then evaluate if yours is a better or worse example.
Hardtop and crank windows are a desirable combo yielding simple parts as they age. No leaking seals or bad motors.
If you have a spare set of C52 axle/CVs they are worth gold.
I owned an '88 SC from '00 - '04
It's tough to say with that exact car, because most collectors would want it stock. Minimal corrosion to you, might be too much for the guy in Arizona. Look at how it's described by you.
Unmolested, well except for X
Body is good, well except for some dents
Changed out tail lights
Changed out front lip
Changed out Transmission
It sounds like a driver car owned by an enthusiast, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it's not necessarily "collectible". I'd say cars and bids would list it long before bring a trailer would, they can get picky. It's also tough to put a value on, becaues it does not really fit anywhere.
Steve, if you are leaning toward selling, please let me know. I didn't realize how close you are, geographically speaking, and a friend of mine over in Bend had an AW11 for many years and is starting to get the itch again. I'm sure if the stars line up for a purchase he'd be the kind of owner you'd want it to go to.
Steve_Jones said:It's tough to say with that exact car, because most collectors would want it stock. Minimal corrosion to you, might be too much for the guy in Arizona. Look at how it's described by you.
Unmolested, well except for X
Body is good, well except for some dents
Changed out tail lights
Changed out front lip
Changed out Transmission
It sounds like a driver car owned by an enthusiast, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it's not necessarily "collectible". I'd say cars and bids would list it long before bring a trailer would, they can get picky. It's also tough to put a value on, becaues it does not really fit anywhere.
Valid points, but maybe I can offer some perspective as a longtime AW11 owner. What I'm hearing is that it's a fairly sought-after combo (no sunroof, manual windows) in unrestored but unmolested "survivor" condition, with reversible bolt-ons and appropriate mechanical upgrades that nobody would see without a magnifying glass, several spreadsheets, and a Pebble Beach judge with an axe to grind. The transmission, for example - a C52 is merely a C50 built a little stronger and a couple of years later. Nothing to wring our hands over.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems low mileage is much more important than condition on sites like BaT. If the OP's car has 40K miles, that changes things. Mine has over 200K and has been "tastefully" modified, and the patina has taken over, so it gets driven daily with little attention paid to what a cherry one owner example is worth.
In reply to DarkMonohue :
Unmolested means unmolested, not modified but can be reversed.
Steve_Jones said:In reply to DarkMonohue :
Unmolested means unmolested, not modified but can be reversed.
Is there an official definition somewhere that I need to be made aware of? If not, "unmolested" is a fairly subjective term. As is "modified". You clearly have your opinions but they may not be universal.
To my mind, Steve's car isn't modified. We're talking about things that can be undone in an afternoon with a socket set and a #2 Phillips.
I don't see a bolt-on late model front spoiler and taillights turning this car - or many others, for that matter - from the belle of the auction block ball to a disappointing also-ran. And I think anyone serious enough to pay up for a nice example knows how easy it would be to return it to factory stock condition if that's what they really wanted.
Anyway, that's my two cents' worth, and, in my opinion, well worth it.
Look at comparable BaT sales and subtract 25% if selling on Craigslist/Facebook. Make sure you're looking at recent sales, as prices have been up a lot since Covid, and particularly in the last few months.
I've owned a bunch of these over the years. It will come down to a lot of little details. Rust (any of it,) cracked c-pillar trim, banged up chin spoilers, missing eyelid trim, radio surround, cracked dashes. This stuff makes all the difference.
I bought a damn near mint 86 from the original owner 10 years ago for $1000. They've eclipsed that for sure. Objectively, they are less rugged and not as pretty as the SW20s, so the market value for a similar condition NA SW20 is going to be the above the upper boundary of the AW11.
Lots of knowledgeable, if cheap, talent here. Post pictures and I would say add 15% to whatever we tell you. ;)
I find that I often get very accurate (but not precise) values from a combination of things. There may not have been a lot of 80s MR2s sold on ebay, but if you do a search and click on "completed auctions" or something it will show you a bunch of red and green numbers to indicate if it sold or not. In either case, the number shown is the maximum shoppers were willing to spend regardless of red or green.
CL can be helpful, but you never know if they're asking a true price that it's worth, or if they're hoping for a sucker. Still, CL pricing is often within a relatively useful range of pricing. You can take the cheapest one and discard the crazy high ones and sorta price it in the middle.
With a rare-ish car, I like to put it on ebay. Bigger audience than CL or FB. When I sell on ebay, I put a high reserve, then if it's getting close to what I want, I'll lower the reserve to the next bid amount and edit the ad to say something like "reserve lowered... only one more bid to beat it." If it looks like it won't get to my reserve, I let it ride so it's kinda unwinnable. Although, that one did surprise me once. I had a cherry, barn-find 73 Impala wagon with only 50,xxx miles and a 454. I put a reserve of $4000 knowing I would take $3000. I went to bed one night and it was only at $1800 so I let it ride thinking it wouldn't sell.. Woke up in the morning to an email that said it sold for $4600. Hooray for late-night bidders.
I've never owned anything worthy of BaT
Ebay, sold items for whatever it is (it's in the left hand column of any search).
My general observation is that when someone says something would be easy to fix, they're saying that because they don't see value in doing it themselves (or it would already be done) so it sort of implies a lie, or some unrealistic optimism, or at least assumptions about the buyer's time being easier to pinch off than their own. In general people paying top dollar for anything are people that this free market has decided that their time is more valuable than.. some others', so whatever you think it would cost you to actually do it, you can assume it would cost them more, if only because their time is more expensive than yours. If you are putting a conditional value on something based on an idea that 'it would be totally original/unmolested if someone did XYZ that i personally am not willing to do', well the people paying the top of any given thing are paying that because they don't want to do it either. The flip side of this is just because someone says something is original/unmolested doesn't mean it really is, but it might mean that they made a decision about the value of sinking time/money into making that plausibly true, and acted on it. There are probably quite a few cars that were sold that way for top dollar even though it hadn't been 'true' 6 months before.
I'm on BAT on a daily basis so I feel like I have a good perspective.
Way too many miles for BAT. Previous poster is right. You will be crucified for "easy to fix" claims. If they were easy, why not do them before sale. BAT 80s cars they HAVE to be pristine, low mile cars to get good sale numbers. Post some pics and ask here for critique. I guarantee this audience will be a ton more forgiving than the BAT audience.
I'm reading back through my posts and digesting the messages as well, seems like something might have gotten off track here.
I don't really believe I had mentioned that I was trying to sell this as a original year, pristine concourse car. The value of noting that it is an 85 is due to specific items that the 85's came from the factory with. I have absolutely no intention of trying to label this as a perfect, first year AW11. It's a driver's car, and if someone down the road wanted to restore it back to factory, they could. e.g. I haven't cut the fenders apart for flares or cut through the rear trunk firewall for a turbo setup. The reason behind the extra parts that it would come with is, well, spares obviously, and the fact that this guy here (Me) just has not had the time to press out old bushings or replace strut cartridges. It's not hard, it's just not on the schedule. As for restoring it back to stock, that's for someone else to do. I like the way it looks/sounds/drives as it sits. Maybe I should have made that more clear in the original post.
Anyways, for those that offered some constructive advice on the original request, I appreciate it. That sets me off in the right direction!
When I was a AW11 MR2 owner, I dabbled in selling MR2 parts found in junkyards. The tail light update to the newer version was a very popular mod. I sold off many sets. It is also easy to go back to the old version if you have the parts.
I'm just defending that some "easy fixes" are really easy but I too agree that the newer version looks better.
In south Florida, based on your description and not knowing the mileage, its a $2500-3000 car. I would ask $3500.
Probably not what you were expecting.
If you put it back to stock (spoiler/lights), including the exhaust and buffing the paint to a good shine, then I would place it on BAT and expect $5-5500. They will most likely have you place it at no reserve.
Original paint or a respray?
Just for perspective...in my area (DC) there is an 86 MR2 that from the photos appears to be pretty close to mint condition outside and very nice inside, with hardtop, hand-crank windows, everything original so far as I can tell. Ad states flat-out "no rust" "no mechanical issues." And the engine bay looks clean with signs of new stuff.
It was posted 5 weeks ago as "$8000 FIRM" and 5 weeks later its now listed at $7500.
But again, it has not sold after 5 weeks, and it's probably the nicest 1st gen MR2 I've seen around here in a decade. Yeah, it's an 86 and not an 85. But IDK, YMMV.
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Just for the sake of comparison, there's an 86 944 Turbo in pretty similar condition with a ton of stuff brand new on it, and he's asking the same price for it. The Porsche I bet will sell in a week for that. I'm not sure that MR2 of the same year would realistically be in the same price range as a 944 Turbo with under 100k miles.... Apples and oranges maybe, but just a data point.
July 15th 2020
1985, hardtop, crank windows. 36k miles:
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