AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
11/6/23 6:20 p.m.

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AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
11/6/23 6:23 p.m.

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02Pilot
02Pilot PowerDork
11/6/23 6:29 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
02Pilot said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

Russia has always won wars by stubbornness and attrition.  Anyone around here study history?  Why was this one going to be any different? 

It's also lost wars by the same mechanisms: Afghanistan, the First World War (particularly during the Kerensky provisional government following the first 1917 revolution), and the Russo-Japanese War for example, and that's just the 20th Century.

So the strategy works sometimes and doesn't others.  It's still easy to predict they will use this strategy.  

And also irrelevant. Limited wars are usually decided by a wide array of factors, with policy considerations and economic impacts sharing the spotlight with tactical and operational methods. Barring dramatic battlefield victory, which became highly unlikely a week after the invasion, it's very likely that this will be decided around a table, not in the trenches.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter)
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
11/6/23 7:47 p.m.

Is someone paying you every time you post the word "censorship" on this forum?

Opti
Opti SuperDork
11/6/23 7:49 p.m.
02Pilot said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
02Pilot said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

Russia has always won wars by stubbornness and attrition.  Anyone around here study history?  Why was this one going to be any different? 

It's also lost wars by the same mechanisms: Afghanistan, the First World War (particularly during the Kerensky provisional government following the first 1917 revolution), and the Russo-Japanese War for example, and that's just the 20th Century.

So the strategy works sometimes and doesn't others.  It's still easy to predict they will use this strategy.  

And also irrelevant. Limited wars are usually decided by a wide array of factors, with policy considerations and economic impacts sharing the spotlight with tactical and operational methods. Barring dramatic battlefield victory, which became highly unlikely a week after the invasion, it's very likely that this will be decided around a table, not in the trenches.

I would say limited wars are generally decided by whoever has the most staying power. It currently looks like Russia has the staying power in this one.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/6/23 8:08 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
02Pilot said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

Russia has always won wars by stubbornness and attrition.  Anyone around here study history?  Why was this one going to be any different? 

It's also lost wars by the same mechanisms: Afghanistan, the First World War (particularly during the Kerensky provisional government following the first 1917 revolution), and the Russo-Japanese War for example, and that's just the 20th Century.

So the strategy works sometimes and doesn't others.  It's still easy to predict they will use this strategy.  

So, your conclusion is, your point: "Russia has always won wars by stubbornness and attrition" is incorrect?  Right?  But the ability to predict this strategy, which entirely irrelevant to the point, is correct?  So.... the point is?

Can you also conclude:  "Anyone around here study history?" comes of as snide and is rather embarrassing, considering?  Right?

Considering the above, might you also be able to get the smallest hint as to why many people in this thread don't care to read what you have to say and would rather not have you participate in the discussion?

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/7/23 12:29 a.m.

 

Ukraine is considering changing its war strategy with Russia, Zelensky for NBC News

“Our military is coming up with different plans, different operations in order to move forward faster and deliver unexpected attacks on the Russian Federation,” he said.

And he added the previously voiced idea that the war had not reached a dead end: “They thought they would defeat us, but this did not happen. I don't think it's a dead end."

 

Looks like the Ukrainians are going to start sending their own "Shakheds" soon (1000km range could be a huge problem for the Russians):

Ukrainian analogue of "Shakheds" went into serial production, - general director of Ukroboronprom

The record combat sortie range of the new development is 1,000 km. The new kamikaze drone is already being ordered by the Defense Forces for their operations.

Russian ship (a rather newly built ship) near Kerch bridge struck by at least two missiles (noted above):

 

The Russian are apparently setting up for another big push at Adviika, the last few of which has resulted huge Russian losses for very little gain.

The Ukrainians have expanded their bridgehead across the Dnipro near Kherson.  The Russian have used large numbers of glide bombs (likely their most effective weapon at this point, but not terribly accurate) in the area.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltimaDork
11/7/23 7:48 a.m.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

Is someone paying you every time you post the word "censorship" on this forum?

I feel like people are paid to downvote him, as often as that happens.  devil

Granted, this whole part of the conversation is unproductive- it's clearly two sides shouting past each other and not listening to the other side.  Words have meanings, but they are not in and of themselves "thinking".  It's plainly very easy to string a bunch of words together into a sentence that follows all the conventions of grammar but actually says nothing.  

'I wrote an orange bottle at the moon."

Noddaz
Noddaz PowerDork
11/7/23 7:52 a.m.
Noddaz
Noddaz PowerDork
11/7/23 5:43 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
11/7/23 9:26 p.m.

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AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
11/7/23 9:32 p.m.

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AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
11/7/23 9:34 p.m.

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Noddaz
Noddaz PowerDork
11/8/23 3:46 p.m.

Well, this is interesting.

Russia buys helicopter engines from partner countries

It seems Russia is trying to buy engines back from countries they sold them to.

 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
11/8/23 9:54 p.m.

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Nathan JansenvanDoorn
Nathan JansenvanDoorn Dork
11/9/23 2:35 a.m.

Can we all just agree to ignore AnthonyGS when he posts in this thread? I stopped engaging when he accused me of false equivalancy when I was paraphrasing him to make a point
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself."

In this context, he's rude, condescending, and refuses to consider requests to start his own thread so that this one can stay on topic.  He keeps asking for evidence, but ignores or refuses to engage any evidence that is provided. More than a few people have pointed out that it's how he presents his opinion rather than the opinion itself, but again here, he seems to be playing the victim and only 'the other side' is shouting.  

@AnthonyGS -  I'll reiterate a point that has been made several times: please start your own thread, if you wish to continue debating the meaning of censorship, so that this one can continue on topic.  

johndej
johndej SuperDork
11/9/23 3:55 a.m.

In reply to Nathan JansenvanDoorn :

Aircooled did, it got locked 

Noddaz
Noddaz PowerDork
11/9/23 7:52 a.m.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
11/9/23 10:28 a.m.

In reply to Nathan JansenvanDoorn :

What? Stop posting here and spoil his fun? I've long been convinced that he's doing this only for his own entertainment, even if he doesn't know it. 
 

 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/9/23 12:26 p.m.

A slightly weird story about what I think is one of Zelenkys aids or inner circle (?):

Unspeakable pain and heavy loss for the Armed Forces of Ukraine and for me personally.

Today, under tragic circumstances, on his birthday, my assistant and close friend, Major Gennadiy Chastyakov, died in the family circle.
An unknown explosive device went off in one of the gifts. Gennady is survived by his wife and four children. My deepest condolences to the family…

From the beginning of the full-scale invasion, Gennady was a reliable shoulder for me, completely devoting his life to the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the fight against Russian aggression.

The reasons and circumstances will be established during the pre-trial investigation.

 

The United States has not recorded any cases of theft of military aid in Ukraine - Ambassador Bridget Brink for Fox News

The ambassador admitted that Ukraine, like other post-Soviet countries, has problems with corruption, but the full-scale invasion changed the situation and now Ukraine is actively fighting it.

In addition, the US Embassy carries out enhanced oversight of assistance to Ukraine - this is done by a third of the mission's staff, as well as representatives of the US Office of Inspector General from three different departments.

“I can say that not a single piece of equipment was used for other purposes; not a single unit of humanitarian aid or any other direct budgetary support or other types of assistance,” Brink emphasized.

 

Russia launches deadly missile strike on civilian ship at Ukrainian Black Sea port, Kyiv says

A Russian missile struck a cargo ship as it docked in the Ukrainian Black Sea port of Odesa, killing the pilot and injuring four others, Ukrainian officials said....

....Ukraine’s infrastructure minister Oleksandr Kubrakov said the ship was supposed to carry iron ore to China, and described the extensive damage Russian strikes have inflicted on Ukrainian infrastructure since it allowed the grain deal to lapse....

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/europe/russia-missile-civilian-ship-ukraine-odesa-intl/index.html

In regards to a war of attrition, some, in Russia, seem to be asking "who is grinding who":

A prominent pro-war Russian milblogger who is typically optimistic about Russian capabilities expressed a relatively pessimistic assessment of the war and emphasized the need for the Kremlin to fully mobilize the Russian economy and defense industrial base (DIB) to a wartime footing to win. The milblogger claimed on November 7 that Ukraine is committed to an “exhausting war” against Russia and that Russian needs “enormous combat potential” and an “accurate calculation” of its capabilities to beat Ukraine.[11] Another Russian milblogger expressed surprise that a milblogger who was previously so positive in his assessments of the Russian offensive campaign in Ukraine would openly admit to the need for a wider mobilization of the Russian economy in the face of a long war.[12] The Kremlin has largely appeared unwilling to conduct wider economic mobilization, and the milblogger's call to change this line is noteworthy.[13] Yet another Russian milblogger claimed that Russia is ”paying terribly” for the Kremlin’s unwillingness to fully commit to the war.[14] The milbloggers’ suggestion to further mobilize the Russian economy appears to be part of recent discussions in the Russian information space about operational changes that could help Russian forces overcome challenges in Ukraine, likely in response to Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief General Valerii Zaluzhnyi’s recent essay on the subject of “positional warfare.”[15] Zaluzhnyi’s essay appears to have prompted even the most positive Russian milbloggers to make more straight and honest assessments about the Russian war effort.

stroker
stroker PowerDork
11/9/23 2:47 p.m.
aircooled said:

A slightly weird story about what I think is one of Zelenkys aids or inner circle (?):

In regards to a war of attrition, some, in Russia, seem to be asking "who is grinding who":

A prominent pro-war Russian milblogger who is typically optimistic about Russian capabilities expressed a relatively pessimistic assessment of the war and emphasized the need for the Kremlin to fully mobilize the Russian economy and defense industrial base (DIB) to a wartime footing to win. The milblogger claimed on November 7 that Ukraine is committed to an “exhausting war” against Russia and that Russian needs “enormous combat potential” and an “accurate calculation” of its capabilities to beat Ukraine.[11] Another Russian milblogger expressed surprise that a milblogger who was previously so positive in his assessments of the Russian offensive campaign in Ukraine would openly admit to the need for a wider mobilization of the Russian economy in the face of a long war.[12] The Kremlin has largely appeared unwilling to conduct wider economic mobilization, and the milblogger's call to change this line is noteworthy.[13] Yet another Russian milblogger claimed that Russia is ”paying terribly” for the Kremlin’s unwillingness to fully commit to the war.[14] The milbloggers’ suggestion to further mobilize the Russian economy appears to be part of recent discussions in the Russian information space about operational changes that could help Russian forces overcome challenges in Ukraine, likely in response to Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief General Valerii Zaluzhnyi’s recent essay on the subject of “positional warfare.”[15] Zaluzhnyi’s essay appears to have prompted even the most positive Russian milbloggers to make more straight and honest assessments about the Russian war effort.

I'm interpreting that as Vlad is balancing losing domestic support in a full mobilization against wearing NATO/Western support down.  I'm curious as to whether, if things go badly whether he'll throw a Hail Mary and go to full mobilization...  

eastsideTim
eastsideTim UltimaDork
11/9/23 3:00 p.m.
stroker said:

I'm interpreting that as Vlad is balancing losing domestic support in a full mobilization against wearing NATO/Western support down.  I'm curious as to whether, if things go badly whether he'll throw a Hail Mary and go to full mobilization...  

Not just domestic support.  If they go on full war footing, Russia runs the risk of losing some of the support they have received from China and India with regard to trade.  Either they'll push for better terms on oil purchases, or there will be enough diplomatic pushback from others to affect trade.

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/9/23 8:05 p.m.
Nathan JansenvanDoorn said:

Can we all just agree to ignore AnthonyGS when he posts in this thread? I stopped engaging when he accused me of false equivalancy when I was paraphrasing him to make a point
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself."

In this context, he's rude, condescending, and refuses to consider requests to start his own thread so that this one can stay on topic.  He keeps asking for evidence, but ignores or refuses to engage any evidence that is provided. More than a few people have pointed out that it's how he presents his opinion rather than the opinion itself, but again here, he seems to be playing the victim and only 'the other side' is shouting.  

@AnthonyGS -  I'll reiterate a point that has been made several times: please start your own thread, if you wish to continue debating the meaning of censorship, so that this one can continue on topic.  

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
11/9/23 8:41 p.m.

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Nathan JansenvanDoorn
Nathan JansenvanDoorn Dork
11/10/23 4:05 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

You're completely wrong if you think "I don't like your link to Time magazine". How you reached that conclusion from my post beggars belief and only reinforces my point. 

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